www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Are we to ape the Orthodox anymore than we ape the Latins?

I thought I was fairly clear on the other forum, but I'll repeat. Eastern Catholics have one reason to exist: "To live as faithful Orthodox in communion with Rome and when that occurs in both East and West cease to exist as a separate entity."

Dan L

Monkeys, I'm told, like nuts. So do I - macadamias, pistachios (no red dye, please) and unsalted cashews are especially welcome. I also have some great recipes involving chocolate and ground walnuts, and/or chocolate and chopped hazelnuts (the combination makes wonderful ice cream).
Peanuts aren't really nuts in the first place, so please don't send me any. Pine nuts are fine - great to cook with, and even delicious by themselves.

Incognitus

Dear Dan,

We shouldn't ape anything! We should be faithful to our own Ruthenian recension tradition. Our Liturgy is a great treasure, and we must guard it, tend it, and put it on a lampstand for all to see.

The late Holy Father told us quite clearly how our liturgical tradition is to be safeguarded. We needn't ape anyone, an insulting idea. We need only be faithful.

This proposed revision is not faithful, and must be rejected!

Nick

Nick,

I followed you until your last comment. Show it. Show it. Show it. What's the point of cursing a translation with vague comments when no one apparently has seen it. If you have, then show the darned thing.

Dan L

My name, Milica, I am Serbian Orthodox and my husband, Seraphim came out of his "desert cave" last night. I am just a woman, mother and wife and I probably have not right to be here, my husband offended a person on this site several months ago. My husband would as I also agree with Dan L's comments, my husband believes that a united and in full communion Catholic and Orthodx Church and this includes the Easter Rite Catholics of which I know many and love dealy as Christians would be of much more benefit united than seperated. So as a woman, I have just like my husband did have offended my own Orthodox brothers and sisters. But my husband speaks what his heart tells him, we do many things with our Catholic and Byzantine Catholic friends, why is it so difficult to embrace as one church, one people, one faith. My husband will not come to the forum because he's worried he would offend again, now I speak for him, do not think this makes my husband weak! Thank you and may God bless all Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholic Christians and Eastern Rite Christians! And forgive me, Milica, a pauper.

Milicia,

As an Orthodox priest, you do not offend me or many others. You have to realize that some are very zealous in their faith and committment to their church, that they look at anyone who does share their zealousness as one who is not faithful.

This is far from the truth. We share many things in common on this board, and hopefully the more we exchange true Christian love and wisdom, we will share more in common coming together, and God willing becoming one again in Christ. Your husband has been hurt, but should not fall away from his convictions. The opinion of one or two is just that, an opinion. Many more reflect the love and Light of Christ here.

You and your husband should be always welcome as long as you both love like our Lord does, and not judge like the pharisee did.

My best to you, your husband and James on his special day.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Dear Milica,

I agree with Father Anthony. I find that it is the recent converts to Orthodoxy from Catholicism or Protestantism who tend to be the most defensive and feel the most offended.

Honestly, what will our Lord say in heaven to those Catholics and Orthodox who have tried to live a righteous life? I'm sure He will welcome them with open arms, "Welcome my faithful servants."

Like St. Seraphim, we must preach repentance and true charity in our lives.

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth

p.s. My husband also shares this viewpoint. So you two are not alone.

Milica,

Bravissimo!! Glory to God! Glory to Jesus Christ! You spead great wisdom.

Dan L

Dear Dan,
It really is the responsibility of those who have produced this translation/revision/recension or whatever one cares to call it to show it - it is not the responsibility of private individuals who may or may not have come into possession of copies to publish the thing. I have written plenty of book reviews in my time; one usually does this before the publication date (on the basis of a review copy which one has received). In rare cases, it happens that even at the last moment the author, or the publisher, or both do not publish the book after all. That does NOT mean that the reviewer is suddenly obligated to publish it for them!

So please direct your request to those who have made this Revised Recension instead of to those who don't like it.

Incognitus

If there is something to criticize let us see what is being criticized. If there is not then why are there criticisms?

If the critics wish to be taken seriously then they should take their case to the bishops or whoever has copies of the study copy and get those puublished. My calling is to advance the cause of the Church through evangelism. So far the critics of the new liturgy have only offered innuendo. Why would I wish to be sidetracked by innuendo?

As in the courts the burden of proof that the new translation is dangerous is in the prosecutions court. The bishops and the translation committee are the defense and we the people are the judges and jury. If you wish to make a case produce the evidence.

Dan L

Dan writes that "the burden of proof that the new translation is dangerous is in the prosecution's court." [Please forgive me for having added the missing apostrophe.]

I'm afraid that's not an entirely accurate statement. When someone or some group - even a highly official group - wants to put aside a Liturgy presently in use and substitute another, the burder of proof is upon those who wish to make the change.

If it were a question of people attacking the 1940 Ruthenian Recension Liturgicon (which is not impossible), THEN the burden of proof would be upon the critics, since that Liturgicon has been in official use (in the great majority of churches following the Ruthenian Recension in the first place) since sometime after World War II, it has the backing of the Popes and such luminaries as Andrew Sheptytsky and Blessed Theodore (Romzha). It was produced by the Holy See upon the formal request of all the hierarchs to whom it applied. None of these could truthfully be said about the draft which, it seems, some wish to impose.

Incognitus

It took a while (since 28 May, in fact) but someone gave me a bag of macadamia nuts on Saturday, and yesterday another kind person gave me some WONDERFUL marzipan bars coated with dark chocolate. Goes to show what "aping the Orthodox" can do for you. I'm still waiting for pistachios (no red dye, please).

Incognitus

What is this new revision/resension people are talking about? Any links?

Is anyone else here wonder exactly what "to ape" means? I think I pretty much got it from the context... but I'm still not sure exactly what it means.

Thanks,

John

Just to add to all the confusion: the late Father Louis Bouyer when lecturing about liturgy (and he probably lectured about liturgy in his sleep) often spoke of the significance of the apse and what should be found therein. Unfortunately, he always pronounced it "the apes".

Incognitus

Yeah, what was the idea behind the red dye anyways???? I always think of Naked Gun when I think of red pistachios lol.