www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Vatican III: 2050 and the Pan-Orthodox Council of 2070, Part I

Dear Friends,

This is all very nice . . .

But I think such stories do no one any good in the end (except mine, of course ).

This reminds me of all the emigre Ukrainians in Toronto who used to get together in pubs to discuss what kind of "free Ukrainian state" will exist in future . . .

As a number of them I once heard said, "If a free Ukraine won't exist in the way I've said it should, then let it not become free!"

I once met a ROCOR priest with whom I began a discussion about Eastern Catholic/Orthodox unity.

I plainly told him I did not believe that the Unia was a good model or way of achieving unity between our Churches.

I also told him I believed that unity will come about in the way God wants, and not in the way we want.

And with a hug and a smile, we parted as friends . . .

Alex

That's nice Alex....

Your story reminds me of a story my godmother once told me:

One day a Byzantine Catholic friar was visiting an Orthodox Monastery. A monk came up to him and said, "You know you Uniates are really Roman Catholics don't you?" The humble friar said, "Hmm.. that's nice; so were's the food? "

In St. Josaphat,

Robert the Hungarian

Nice story. But do you have to be so hard on the Lefebvrist? While I am no member of the SSPX, they non the less seem like sincer and honest people who really want to end the chaos of the post V2 era by returning to the previous traditions and discipline of the Latin Church.

In Christ,

Robert Kearney

Vatican III:2050 and the Pan Orthodox Council of 2070, Part III - The Second Parousia

In Pittsburg, PA the Head of the Byzantine-Ruthenian Metropolia was offering the Holy Sacrifice of the Divine Liturgy when the Temple started to tremble violently. "My son" the Most Holy Virgin cried out to the Metropolitan, "My Heart is grieved by the Church! Contact the Pope and give him this message: Call an assembly of the Heads of all the Ancient Churches for they will be visited by my Son during the Holy Offering." "Mother" cried the elderly Metropolitan, "How can this be? But I shall do as you request most Holy Theotokos!" Then the Panagia departed with a concourse of Angels and Holy Ones. The Metropolitan finished the Divine Liturgy and fell on his face in the Holy Altar in deep moans of repentance and purification; his face shone with the uncreated light of God and he arose to perform the request of the Virgin.

The aging Metroplitan flew immediately to Rome to have an Audience with the Holy Father. "Your Holiness I pray you are in good health." said the Ruthenian Metropolitan to the Pope. "What is it you desire from me, my brother?" asked the Pontiff. "Our Blessed Mother has appeared to me to ask that you call an assembly of the leaders of all the Apostolic Churches; she has also instructed me to tell you that Christ will appear during the Liturgy." The Pope fell on his face and cried out, "Oh my blessed Redeemer how I have waited for this day; the day when all the saints will cry together: Hosanna! Blessed is He Who Comes in the Name of the Lord!; and when every knee shall bow under the earth, on the earth and above the earth and schisms will be ended!"

His Holiness immediately called for an Ecumenical Congress and invited not only the leaders of the Apostolic Churches, but also the Protestants and members on non-Christian religions.

All came except the Patriarch of Moscow who declared, "Although the intentions of the Pope may be honorable We do not feel at this time that it would be the appropriate symbol to meet in this manner; therefore we respectfully decline."
The Lefebrist "Pope" would also not attend declaring, "...Another Damnable Assisi...We shall not attend such a blashemous event...The Church already has unity...the Apostolic Roman Church under Us is One!"

A stadium was used for this purpose in Rome and each major Apostolic Church had a station to celebrate the Holy and Divine Liturgy. Each Church would celebrate the Liturgy simultaneously as a act of solidarity. The first speaker was the Pope. "My brothers and sisters on this happy occasion Our Lord has called us to unity...today will be a day of great joy and a mystery of salvation." His Holiness kept the Marian Secret and did not disclose it to anyone.

After all the speakers were finished the Heads of the Apostolic Churches began their Liturgies. All of a sudden a great crackle was heard which sounded like lightening; and clouds appeared above where they all were. "What is happening? This is an omen." said the Patriarch of Constantinople. Then suddenly the clouds parted down the middle and a magnificent light shown forth with such power that none could look upon it. And what sounded like a great explosion occured and everyone started crying out in fear.

Then the Pope called out in a great Voice: "It is He, Jesus Christ!" And with that multitudes of angelic beings poured out of the Light and the Great Mother of God appeared saying: "I have cried repentance and have warned of the Judgement. I offer you this final opportunity to Repent! I call you to find my Son, Jesus Christ!

Then She cried, "To those who have perpetuated the schisms the blood of the martyrs cries against you. Repent those who have rent the Body of My Son! Oh how you grieve the Holy Spirit with your ignorance and divisions. When my Son came to this earth he established ONE Church and you have rent Her into pieces. Repent! Repent! Repent! I am afraid now is the time. There will be no more Councils and Commissions to achieve this unity; for my Son is not to far behind me and holds the Scales of Justice; unless you bend the knee and Repent I am afraid you will be condemned for 'Judgement comes first to the House of God.'

Then a great wailing was heard throughout the coliseum and all fell on their faces crying out, "Save us Oh, Lord; We beg of You!" And demons that filled some of the People screamed and shouted the most evil profanities against God and His Mother. And with that the Virgin Disappeared; and a great Earthquake occured and everything shook with immense power.

And Christ appeared sitting upon His glorious White Throne and called out to the people saying, "When I was on the Earth I came to call Sinners to Repentance and Life; Now I do not call you to Repentance, but to receive Your Just reward!" Then all of the graves opened and the seas gave up their dead and in a glorious manner did all see them go to meet their Lord and in an instant all were Judged. Almost all of the clergy were condemned and most of the people were damned; 'narrow is the Way...'. In heaven the Pontiff embraced our Lord Jesus and said, "I love you; Oh how I love you and have longed for you and now have you; I am filled with eternal joy!" With that Our Lord said, "You did well Peter; you did well."

Our Lord assembled the Holy Hierarchs of the Churches, who had been found worthy, in the company of the blessed Apostles and the Seventy and gave them His blessing and they all fell on their faces and then rose singing the Angelical Hymn; And they received their Crowns and departed to receive the Mansion that had been prepared for them from the Foundation of the World.

Amen.

Dear Robert,

It's just too bad you weren't around when John the Theologian was writing the Book of Revelation . . .

Alex

Dear Robert and friends in Christ,

What a wonderful short story of the Coming of Ages. Like in the first part, I am in agreement with that of Vatican II as an experiment that failled and produced fruits of err.

I await for the next council to correct all mistakes, the so-called Vatican III.

One Church in Christ, that's very nice to hear.
One Christendom.

Thank you for that hopeful story, but then again...

Eumir

Robert,
How do we reconcile our belief in Christ "The Lover of Mankind" with your writing "most of the people were damned"?? I know this is just fiction (thank God!!!!) but I just don't get that seeming contradiction. God is described in Isaish as more merciful then a Mother. If so, I just don't believe in this general damnation, I'm sorry.

Dear Brian,

I don't either! (Happy Pascha to you next week!)

Alex

Dear Eumir,

Magandang Omaga!

The problem you would have in denying the truth of Vatican II, from the Catholic viewpoint, is that you would be denying the words of Christ promising to be with His Church always until the end of time.

If something happens in the Church that somehow I don't like, I usually say that it is a problem with me and not with the Church.

Mabuhay Ang Filipinas!

Alex

One thing I find funny about this is the constant use of the following words....

"Byzantine-Ruthenian Metropolia" and "Ruthenian Metropolitan" when such a thing ceased to exist when the Byzantine Ruthenian Church changed its offical name to the Byzantine Catholic Church.

The correct way to describe this would then be Byzantine Catholic Metropolia and Byzantine Catholic Metropolitan.

Just an observation.

And again, I will raise my objections to a work of fiction being in a topic whose description is Discuss relations between the Eastern and Western Christian Churches.

Can anyone enlighten me how this work of fiction discusses the real relations between the Eastern and Western Christian Churches?


David

POST WITHDRAWN BECAUSE DAVID DIDN'T LIKE IT

Alex

So then Alex, what you are saying is that you really do not respect our Church's right to name itself.

But you expect us to respect your Church's right to name your Major Archbishop, Patriarch.

As for the ethnicity thing. I knew you would bring it up and you know what I think of that argument. Its a bunch of bunk if you ask me.

Ethnicity in North American is nothing but a way to seperate yourself from others, to exclude people. That may not be the intent but it is what happens.

As for "Byzantine Catholic" being a generic term for all Byzantine Churches, I do not believe this is so. I have yet to hear of an Orthodox Church use the term Byzantine Catholic to describe themselves.

The correct generic term would be Byzantine Rite Catholic. But then I understand the lazyness that is out there that makes one want to drop the word Rite to make things so much simplier.


David

Dear David,

Number one, please calm down, it's your holy week!

Number two, I didn't mean any offense. I said that this is how this term comes across to me and others I've spoken to about it.

Clearly, the Ruthenian Church would like to assert its cultural identity. I've come under fire here for related issues.

It's not as if your Church wants to totally discard its cultural identity - if it does, then you tell me.

Anyone has the right to call themselves whatever.

I'm just asking an open question about the effectiveness of that term which seems to connote being Byzantine only and open to everyone (which I know you are). But then, what becomes of your Ruthenian background and identity?

I would hope that I and others could ask such questions without having you impute nasty motive etc.

And you show great respect yourself for the many Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Churches that have a cultural identity and a long-standing tie to an historical community.

Let's see, it would seem that the new, as yet unstated, things that are verboten here are: discussing communion with Rome, discussing the Ruthenian Church, discussing . . . what else?

Perhaps the fast is getting to you, although I should be the one to be angry since I have another week to go.

But I apologise and withdraw my earlier post since it upsets you so.

Perhaps I'll review my future posts with the Administrator before putting them up here.

Have a great Easter!

Alex

Alex,

The title fits since the Ukrainians are usually just "Ukrainian" whereas the Ruthenians also took care of Hungarian and Croatian Greek Catholics, hence more pan-Byzantine.

Just east of my home in Fairport Harbor, OH, is my pastor's second parish, which was originally founded as a 'Hungarian' parish, St. Michael the Archangel; just west of me in Cleveland, OH, is the only 'Croatian' Greek Catholic parish in the U.S., St. Nicholas (they have excellent lamb roasts! Totally awesome!)

Our more umbrella-like groupings called for a more pan-Greek Catholic name: Byzantine.

But what's in a name?

Joe

Dear Cantor Joe,

Thank you for your excellent post on the subject!

It makes eminent sense and it would seem that your Church and Pat. Josef Slipyj were in sync here as the latter also included the term "Ruthenian" in his longer name for the UGCC.

We have also had, and still have, Hungarian and other Greek Catholic parishes that belong to our Eparchy. The Slovaks, as you know, now have their own.

It's nice to be able to speak calmly with a fellow Byzantine Catholic . . .

Have a great Easter, Big Guy, you and your family!

Alex