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I've tended to stay away from these issues, as I'm never sure I have a lot to contribute. But, as to the question of Orthodox reaction to potentially abusive usages in the Latin Church's liturgical rubrics, do we really think that is a major, if any, concern?

I don't doubt that there are beautifully celebrated Novus Ordo Masses, neither do I think that the NO Mass will ever (in its current presentation) approach the beauty and majesty of a Tridentine Mass. At the same time, I believe that there are instances in which modernization has gone to the point where the liturgical presentation is abusive and loses at least its appearance of being a meaningful service within which God is appropriately worshipped. BUT, unless it happens to be an occurrence at one of the rare NO Masses which I attend (almost entirely limited to weddings and funerals), I don't think of it nor am I concerned about it, except for feeling badly for my Latin brothers and sisters. It isn't the venue within which I participate in liturgy and, therefore, it isn't mine to criticize.

I might deem it regretable, but it won't turn me from the Catholic Church, nor, if I were apart from the Catholic Church and considering communion with it, would it keep me from it. As long as my own Church's liturgy is intact and appropriate, I am content. Am I missing something here? Are we thinking that the NO abuses could be a harbinger of risk to our own liturgies?

Many years,

Neil

It is interesting that the Orthodox observers at Vatican II made no overtly negative statements of great concern about the liturgical documents themselves such as Sacrosanctum Concilium. Some actually made positive comments regarding vernacular Liturgy, etc.

The issue of the Roman Liturgy has never been raised at any official joint meeting of the Catholic-Orthodox theological dialogue.

Justinian is turning over in his grave. :p

I'm sure some are indeed rolling over in the grave. The Holy Justinian, I think, was simpathetic to us so-called Monophysites. In fact, we sing his profound Christological hymn the Monogenes (called Miadzeen Vorti in Armenian) every Sunday in our Divine Liturgy of St. Athanasius.

But I do agree with you there is something ironic (at first glance) about Armenians and Melkites worshipping with another. Yet the more I study our two great Traditions the more I see profound similarity and complimetary-ness (if there is such a word).

Bill,

As to that "complimetary-ness", while we're waiting for reunion, I think there's great potential for a concelebrated food fair - our foods complement each other very well. While pita is, of course, superior to lahvosh , we don't have anything that quite stands up as an alternative to lahmajoon.

Many years,

Neil

Neil,

I'm impressed with your literacy in Armenian cuisine. But -for a $1,000,000- can you guess what is the most widespread food claimed to be invented by Armenians? Hint: Its not Paklava.

p.s. Lavash is better than some pita. It also depends on what you're eating it with. Ever had tabooli and hummus on lavash? An excellent lenten dish! It just wouldn't work with pita.

Kabab?

Voch (No).

p.s. Hint #2 Every super-market carries it.

Humus Tahinni.
Stephanos I

Bill,

Actually, thanks to Vartan, an Armenian neighbor in my childhood years, I was exposed to Armenian cuisine long before I was aware of Arabic or Lebanese foods . (An appreciation for eggplant doesn't come naturally to we Irish.) Besides, it's not possible to grow up adjacent to Watertown, MA and be unaware of Armenian cuisine and culture. (Watertown long was, not sure if it still is, the second largest Armenian community in the diaspora. I believe LA is still the largest?)

As to humous and tabouli on pita versus the same on lahvosh, you just have to know where and how to buy your pita - George's Bakery in Methuen, MA (which produces respectable lahvosh as well) or a bakery in Montreal, the name of which escapes me at the moment (begins with "A") - thin (not that cardboard that passes for pita in the supermarket), without being so thin that it tears when separated, never dry, able to become one with the food it surrounds.

As to the $1M dollar question ... I had to really think about this since, given the number and diversity of high quality Middle Eastern stores hereabouts, I'd never think to buy any commercially mass-produced Middle Eastern foodstuffs in a supermarket. Finally, realized it had to be something that the public has seized on and raised to a status beyond yuppie fad food of the moment. So, ... probably yoghurt (thinking of our local Colombosian family, whose Colombo line graces every supermarket's shelves, here in the Northeast at least ). Do I win?

Many years,

Neil

Ajvar? Babaganoush? Labneh? Ak-Maks? Lentil soup? I know they claim some ownership of baklava and dolmasy also.


There is such a word now. You made my day, William. But I'm still curious to know what the answer is...

Dear Friends,

I want to thank all for your participation... but the prize goes to Neil (I'm still chuckling over this one). "Ma-dzoon" is what Armenians call it. "Yoghourt," I am told, is actually a Turkish word. Good try Diak, most impressive. And I thought this forum was nothing but Slavs. Actually everyone claims that their Baklava is original and the best (ours is called "Paklava" and is really the best -made with honey and walnuts). But Ma-dzoon is our claim to fame. We even serve it as a beverage. Historically we were also known for our apricots. I've read that an early Roman historian referred to it as "Fructus Armenus" (Fruit of Armenia). Our national instrumet the Doo-Dook (usually spelled "Duduk") is made out of apricot wood. Its ironic that Ma-dzoon is now known by the Turkish word "Yoghourt" and if you buy apricots in the market they are usually the product of Turkey. This is why we cling to our language, our alphabet and most importantly to our Lord. No one can take these from us!

Please forgive my rampant ethnocentrism!

Yoghurt is Bulgarian. Everyone knows it. Look at the name of the bacteria used in the process. Likewise Bulgarian Feta, Baklava, Mousakka, Rakia, etc are true. We don't want any of these copy-cats.....


:p

Anton

What??? Heresy!

hmmm,

I suppose I won't be getting that $1M prize now, seeing as I didn't realize that yogurt itself wasn't an Armenian word :rolleyes: (those Armenians are sooo slick ... they always find a way to come out on top of every deal ... :p )

Neil, whose undoing probably began with promoting pita triumphalism over lahvosh