www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Interesting article re: mandatory/optional celibacy in RC

A friend of mine, Stephen Hand, runs a website called TCR (Traditional Catholic Reflections) - contrary to what you might think, he is not an "ultratrad" but strives to present what the Church *really* teaches as Tradition.

He has come out strongly in favor of optional rather than mandatory celibacy, citing the good example set by the Eastern churches, and wrote this http://tcrnews2.com/lettersTCR5.html
in response to an article in the "Wanderer" condemning the whole idea - I think his comments make some good points.

TheistGal, thank you.

I'm Latin Catholic, and I am in favor of optional celibacy for candidates for the priesthood. The UltraTrads will oppose it of course, but they don't realize that the Eastern Church has traditions older than their own.

There is a clear problem. The Eastern Churches in Canada can ordain married men. Not in the US, however. The Latin Church in the US can bring in married Episcopal priests but won't ordain married men. (I know that the Vatican has supposedly permitted it on a case by case basis but don�t hold your breath).

The BEST way to solve this problem is for the entire Church to attract and ordain good qualified married men to the priesthood for diocesan ministry. This will help not only the US but Mexico and Brazil, too.

Both the Ukrainian Catholics and Melkites have ordained married men to the priesthood in the US in the last 10 years.

Dear TG, thanks for the article. Having read the Wanderer article mentioned I completely agree that it was poorly done with many things exagerrated and out of context.

Once again, I stand corrected. I should read more and post less.

Aw shucks, why should you be any different from the rest of us?

Come on JW lets get thefacts straight.
The Eastern Church in the US "CAN" ordain married men and is doing so!
There are certain "sui juris" Churches which dont, I beleive on of them is the Ruthenian Church but dont quote me on that.
The reason they dont without prior permission from Rome is that they do not have their own Patriarch and therefor not autochepulous, and need to consult the matter to Rome first.
Anyone have any further light on this?
Stephanos I

The lack of a Patriarch is a poor argument. Our church ordained married men to the priesthood since the Unia without a Patriarch.

With pure pressure and political tactic, the Latin bishops got their way by having the yoke of mandatory celibacy placed on us in 1929.

Our bishops, while ignoring the Vatican II mandate to return to our traditions, have opted to uphold this heavy yoke for the benefit of the Latin Church and not their own clientele.

None of our bishops want to be a maverick in ordaining a married man today. Even the Ukrainian bishops will get their men ordained outside the country or have a visiting bishop ordain them in a church other than their own cathedral.

Our bishops CAN ordain married men to the priesthood if they want to and if there are any candidates who meet the requirements. They just don�t.

The �Mommy, may I� model of church governance is a result of self-deception. We are always used to having someone else make decisions for us and also to lead our church. It has become a learned trait.

There ARE vocations to the priesthood, albeit a married priesthood, but many of them have left for Orthodoxy. The Byzantine Catholic Church has become a vineyard for vocations for other church jurisdictions.

You can�t respect those who don�t respect themselves.

Joe Thur

Stephanos I,

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of clergy are you? Are you Byzantine or Roman Catholic, or Orthodox?

Just wondering!

In Christ,
Aice

Joe Joe
keep your shirt on.
I wasnt defending the way it is just stating "how it is". If the Byzantine Bishops had any courage they would ordain married men who were, as you say "suitable" candidates.
And you know what "Rome" wouldnt even react.
Stephanos I

My shirt is still on.

I was just stating "how it is" too.

Joe

Stephanos,

I acknowledged being corrected.

I rarely post on this Forum. I'm Latin Catholic, as my previous posts indicated, and I don't presume to tell any Byzantine Catholic how to conduct his or her business or how to worship. I lurk around from time to time, mostly to learn something or to ask a question.

Dear jw,

Oh!

I thought you might be a "Jehovah's Witness!"

Alex

Alex,

I am absolutely, definitely, NOT a "JW"

FWIW, JW are my initials, and my handle is my OLD employee ID, no longer used.

FWIW II, I had one great aunt who joined the JWs. Her father, my great grandfather, stowed away on a boat to get out of Poland and ended up near Pittsburgh. He did not speak to her for over 20 years. My great aunt�s grandson married a Catholic two years ago.

FWIW III - I am all for an optional married clergy throughout the universal Church. If the Latin Church had such an option, I may have considerd the priesthood myself, as I did not have a call to the celibate life, for which my wife is quite grateful.

FWIW IV - Some of the stuff from The Wanderer is scary! I�m a conservative Catholic and I love Catholic tradition but they scare me.

Enough thread drift for one night. G�night and see yunz in Uniontown next year.

God bless the Eastern Churches!

Can I ask a really "dumb" question regarding our priests? I understand that in the BC church, a man can be married before being ordained, but why can't a priest marry after he is ordained?

Joe, please get your facts straight. Bishop Basil Losten ordained two married men openly in his Eparchy in 2001. Bishop Elya did likewise several years ago. Hmmm, both of these are patriarchal churches. That aside, it's up to the Ruthenian bishops now to follow suit.