www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Husar accepts Moscow Patriarchal visit

Alex, if you were here I'd give you a triple kiss... That was so eloquently stated. We shouldn't even be considering Patriarch Lubomyr for anything other than Patriarch, as that is the head of our church and the person entrusted with the highest level of shepherding, adminstration and decision making.

As the majority of the universal Church is by population the Roman church, by several orders of magnitude, she should be governed by a Roman pontiff. Someone of her rite, liturgical and spiritual heritage should be her Patriarch.

In the true sense of the primus inter pares, Rome should only be involved with our affairs in critical matters of faith and morals, when our own hierarchy itself has elevated the issue for Rome to make the call, and we should, being in communion with her, accept that call.

Although we like to point the finger at Rome for inducing latinizations, sometimes, like with the issue of the Ordo Celebrationis, Rome has had to "spoon feed" us at critical times for our own good.

I think with the development of our church, especially since V II, and the restoration of our patriarchate, we are ready to "leave the nest" so to speak. I don't know what that has to do with the topic, but we always seem to get our heads wrapped around that issue.

I think if Alexei does visit Patriarch Lubomyr, it will likely be a private affair, probably by Alexei's wishes. I am still somewhat skeptical that they will meet, considering Metropolitan Vladimir's admonitions, which came down from Alexei, to the UOC/MP faithful that they absent themselves from any of the Papal visit events in Kyiv of 2001.

But didn't it matter to Eastern Church Fathers, such as St. John Chrysostom, who was the Pope, since he is the visible head of the Catholic Church? Shouldn't it matter to every faithful Catholic, Eastern or Western, who the head of their Church is?

The Pope isn't just head of the Roman Catholic Church, he's the head of the entire Catholic Church.

ChristTeen287

CristTeen,
I guess that's why he said it doesn't matter.
Lauro

Dear Diak,

As always, you take a good thing (my post ) and make it even better!

Alex

Dear ChristTeen,

Actually, the Eastern Churches believe it is Christ Who is the Head of the Church - but I know you know that.

The Pope of Rome is the first among equals in the entire Church. This means he has the first place at an Ecumenical Council and if your bishop should get mad at you (for one of your posts here, for example ) and wants to excommunicate you, you have the right to appeal to Rome.

Rome can be the referee when the Particular Church asks it to be.

But with administrative and all other matters - it is the Particular Church with its Patriarch or whoever that is in charge of what goes on.

As Diak so eloquently said (triple kiss right back at you, Big Guy!), the Pope is the head of the Particular Latin Church, first and foremost.

He is a referee for the other Churches in cases of necessity.

To say he is the "head of the entire Catholic Church" implies that he is the chief administrator - and he ain't that for other Particular Churches.

Christ is the Head of the Church. The bishops, even Popes and Patriarchs, are His servants.

Alex

Alex,
What you have just posted is not understood amongst the majority of Eastern Catholics. Many religious orders as well don't recognise this as you know. What I'

Sorry I pressed the wrong key. Let me finish what I wanted to say. What I've been doing down here is trying to convince certain people of the facts that have been occuring in Europe (Ukraine) because people for some reason don't like to read. This Forum has also given me a lot to think about and reflect because people here are giving their points of view on subjects that are of interest to everyone who are of the Byzantine tradition, be they Orthox and or Catholics. Another point that is very interesting is that here we have people from all over the world even from Canada and I've learned much here. I on the other hand feel very alone down here and I'm fighting a battle that almost seems impossible, the odds against me are great, but I'm not giving up. I hope Husar comes to Brazil one day and I'm sure that he will. I hope I get a chance to speak with him personnally at least for 10 minutes.
Lauro

Dear Lauro,

What you say is something I've been tryign to convey to the Administrator and others here for some time .

These excellent people believe I'm an Old Style Greek Catholic (and what's wrong with that?).

But I suspect they mean I have "Uniate" tendencies.

And I think I've "come a long way, baby."

Pray for the day the Studites come to Brazil.

But hopefully not during Carnival time.

That just might turn them off . . . religious life . . .

Alex

Dear Alex,

a Unitae only means we are united with Rome.

There are over 1 billion Roman Catholics united with Rome as well.

When meeting a particularly diffucult Roman Catholic I like to remind them they are more Unitae than me and my Church .

Steven

Dear Steven,

Certainly you are right!

But sometimes "Uniate" in certain contexts means someone of the East who is bending over backwards too far for Rome, as in someone with a "Uniate" mentality, subservient to Rome etc.

When I met the Pope, he asked me to hand him some papers that were on a table in front of him that he couldn't reach from his sitting position.

I obeyed . . .

Does that mean I was subservient to him?

Alex

Dear Larou,

my Church group has been having meetings over this.

The Pope and only the Pope is the mediator in our Church affairs. Only when there is some crisis does the Pontiff step in.

But we both know that their are second columns in our Churches that are more Papal than the Pope himself.

My advice would be to organize a group of people who care about the UGGC heirtage and traditions, and start immediately lobbying your Church to return to her proper traditions.

My group has done this and we have made a lot of progress. Talk to your Priest. You will often find a sympathetic ear if you present your case properly.

Just make sure everyone researches properly, and cite proper traditions and laws.

Steven

Dear Alex,

I find nothing wrong with handing the Pontiff papers.

If you take a survey of people he is considered very saintly.

If I met him I would certainly handed him his papers I admire you for having the opportunity to do this.

John Paul II is one of the greatest Popes in history. His predecessor will have a very difficult time filling his shoes.

Steven

Dear Steven,

Excellent to hear, Big Guy!

I think the way must be set forth by our Patriarch and his Patriarchal Synod.

As my experience with our Basilian pastor shows, I think even the most papal people will follow his lead as they see Rome, if not approving our Patriarchy, at least starting to research and examine the possibility!

When Rome was examining the possibility of canonizing the Orthodox St Job of Pochaiv as a Catholic saint, the Basilians who were then at Pochaiv took this as a "go ahead." I have a Catholic medal with the Pochaiv icon on one side and St Job on the other.

Alex

Dear Alex,

sorry about the typos Big Guy!. I am going to celebrate Thanksgiving at 6pm.

My adivce to all people would be to organize and educate yourselves.

I used to sit home and complain until I saw one to many Latin traditions in my own Church.

I talked to my friends and we decided to research our true laws and traditions. Guess what? I did not see to many in my Church.

Good luck to everyone. You can change it.

Steven

Dear Alex,

the problem we have in Philadelphia is the opposite.

Metropolitan Stefan (a Canadian-American), is very traditional and has been encouraging Churches to return to a more "Peter Mohyla outlook".

Some of our own people are to comfortable
with the answers of the past. These would be Sacred Hearts, Rosaries, and Pyorhi lines.

I believe these have there place, but our Church and Liturgy should not be affected by them.

Steven