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I am confused,

He is Patriarch of Constantinople, only while he is there, married to the City. If he left the city, (for any other), wouldn't he cease to be the Patriarch of Constantinople? He would be a 'retired' bishop?

His rank among bishops has to do with the rank of the city, not his personal right, and I wouldn't have thought that it is transferable to another city.

Elias

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Father Elias,

I believe the Popes, when they moved to Avignon, France, were still the Bishops of Rome.

Dr. Eric

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Originally posted by Hieromonk Elias:
I am confused,

His rank among bishops has to do with the rank of the city, not his personal right, and I wouldn't have thought that it is transferable to another city.

Elias
Father Elias,

I would like to bring up the example of the Patriarch of Antioch. He has not resided or used that city in a number of centuries as either his residence or cathedra. Instead his cathedra and residence is in Damascus, Syria.

I hope this helps.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+


Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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I believe that the Latin Church has something similar with its appointment of auxillary bishops. Are they not made bishops of ancient dioceses which have no relationship with the diocese they serve as auxillary?... as a way of maintaining (as far as legal fiction is concerned) the idea of one bishop per territory?

My point being that it seems that a Bishop can have his See (and even vacate his See) and yet still be the Bishop of that See. Just as His Grace, Bishop William of Van Nys lives in Arizona and not California.

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Originally posted by Zenovia:
Turkey has just that intention. It requires Turkish citizenship for the Patriarch, yet has conveniently ethnically cleansed all the Greek Orthodox, and at the same time, refuses to open the theological school at Halki. mad
This is the real difficulty of the situation. The Patriarch must be a Turkish citizen, meaning among other things he must serve in the Turkish military IIRC. The population exchange and the exodus after the riots in the 50's have left almost no Greeks in Turkey. The only working seminary remains closed. All of that spells death for the Patriarchate in the city. I know some people hold out hope that the EU will make things better, but I don't hold out hope in that regard.

I think the most difficult thing to contemplate is that I don't think the Turks will allow many of the holdings of the Patriarchate to leave the country should it ever need to.

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Well, there will be no one to take Patriarch Bartolomew's place, although there are Turkish speaking Orthodox, (no one know's where they came from, although two theories exist). One is that they were originally Turks that had contact with the Byzantine Empire and became Christian, and the other is that they were Orthodox, that eventually adopted the Turkish language.
I have heard it theorized that there are Karamanlides that remained and pretend to be Muslims. If that's true, or how many, I would guess is impossible to say. You couldn't look at that as a possible wellspring of life for the church unless the climate of hostility to Christian minorities in Turkey changed. There is no sign that is the case.

Andrew

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