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This is a printed copy of the Prayer of Absolution which the priest has just read aloud over the body of the deceased at the end of the funeral service. It is consonant with the Orthodox belief that death is not the immutable fixing point for a soul and its eternal fate but sins may be forgiven even after death.

I have just needed to revise my mental image of you as a venerable elder, stooped with wisdom and life's experiences!

I see Fr Kimel's name in this thread. Hasn't he transitioned into the Western Rite section of the Russian Orthodox Church? Or the Church of Antioch? I'd love to read his spiritual journey.

Yes. He is with the Western Rite ROCOR (I think).

Here is his blog:
http://afkimel.wordpress.com/about/

Dear Father,

As you will know, that is a comment made in jest ten years ago.

I've repented of it as I've repented of other comments I've made here.

But if you will forgive me that comment, I'll forgive you your Dalai Lama comment!

In addition, I'm no monastic elder and will poke fun at the drop of a hat (even a klobuk . . .).

But you are right, that was an untoward comment.

Hopefully, you won't find many more that I've made years ago.

For me, it is such a blessing that God will judge me and not yourself (or my wife . . .).

I'm sorry to have disappointed you!

Alex

But there is absolutely nothing to forgive. And I am not disappointed in you at all.

"A merry heart maketh a cheerful countenance" ~Proverbs 15:13

Dear Father Ambrose,

Well, all right then . . .

What do you think of Article Eighteen of the Creed of Dositheus?

I love that Creed but to me the eighteenth article strongly suggests a VERSION of purgatory.

But I am teachable . . .

Alex

Article 18 is wondrously Orthodox. It speaks of those who have died in mortal sin being able to repent and be saved. This teaching is anathema to the Church of Rome and light years away from an understanding of the purpose of Purgatory.

The Confession of Dositheos is counted as one of the Symbolical Books of Orthodoxy (despite obvious influence from the West) and an important document. Your desire to see Purgatory in Article 18 would have more credibility if you could reference subsequent documents from the Orthodox, from synods or theologians who interpret it in such a way.

On a side note, why is a Byzantine Catholic arguing for Purgatory?

Decree 18

We believe that the souls of those that have fallen asleep are either at rest or in torment, according to what each has done; — for when they are separated from their bodies, they depart immediately either to joy, or to sorrow and lamentation; though confessedly neither their enjoyment nor condemnation are complete. For after the common resurrection, when the soul shall be united with the body, with which it had behaved itself well or ill, each shall receive the completion of either enjoyment or of condemnation.

And the souls of those involved in mortal sins, who have not departed in despair but while still living in the body, though without bringing forth any fruits of repentance, have repented — by pouring forth tears, by kneeling while watching in prayers, by afflicting themselves, by relieving the poor, and finally by showing forth by their works their love towards God and their neighbor, and which the Catholic Church has from the beginning rightly called satisfaction — [their souls] depart into Hades, and there endure the punishment due to the sins they have committed. But they are aware of their future release from there, and are delivered by the Supreme Goodness, through the prayers of the Priests, and the good works which the relatives of each do for their Departed; especially the unbloody Sacrifice benefiting the most; which each offers particularly for his relatives that have fallen asleep, and which the Catholic and Apostolic Church offers daily for all alike. Of course, it is understood that we do not know the time of their release. We know and believe that there is deliverance for such from their direful condition, and that before the common resurrection and judgment, but when we know not.
http://www.crivoice.org/creeddositheus.html

Fr Ambrose,

The article clearly states having repented while still in the living in the body not after death. It also talks of enduring punishment due to sins committed. I would say this article aligns with Latin teaching nicely. The only difference being in this definition the "place" of punishment is the Greek Forecourt of Hades/Hell vs the Latin Purgatory. A small matter in my opinion.

Bless Father Ambrose (why don't you ever give your blessing? ),

Many Byzantine Catholics do accept a Purgatory. Or else, as did the Rev. Fr. Deacon Lance, see in this Article of the great Creed of Dositheos, something that fits in with the Roman doctrine - thereby enabling us to say "we agree on this, but express it differently."

The point is that the Article affirms one can be forgiven sins while living in this life, but there is still a need to perform works of repentance and that if one reposes before one can do these, there is a definite punishment in the next life from which one is released especially by the prayer of the Church etc.

If that's not a form of Purgatory - or indeed truly IS Purgatory - then I don't know what is.

And Rome never anathematised the Creed of Dositheos, but Roman theologians in that era especially praised it, just as they praised St Nicholas Cabasilas for his "solid Eucharistic theology."

Alex

1. I am afraid the moderators may find it presumptuous of me.
2. It's a powerful nuclear-strength blessing which had me thrown off CAF. 36 people converted.

Do you want to risk it?

-oOo-
Let me add that I am very aware of the great politeness people accord me (and all priests) on this forum.

As you know Orthodoxy believes in eternal punishment due to sin and this was assumed in toto on the Cross by our Redeemer. It has no concept of temporal punishment due to sin. Without that concept Purgatory falls over.

The Orthodox are very uncomfortable with the words of Pope Paul VI:

It is a divinely revealed truth that sins bring punishments inflicted by God's sanctity and justice. These must be expiated either on this earth through the sorrows, miseries and calamities of this life and above all through death,(3) or else in the life beyond through fire and torments or "purifying" punishments.

Apostolic Constitution, Indulgentiarum Doctrina, 1967

Bless Father!

I will risk it! (I left CAF voluntarily - before they could throw me out!)

If it is God's Will that I become Orthodox, and I am given the Grace to discern that, then how could I do otherwise?

Alex

Bless Father!

Certainly, the words of Paul VI aside, Article 18 of Dositheus affirm what you said.

However, is it not clear from Article 18 that works of repentance are required and that a temporal form of penitential cleansing after death is the reserve of those who had failed to perform works of repentance?

I think that article is self-explanatory. There is suffering after death which is temporary (and for how long we cannot know) for those who had not performed works of repentance.

How is this different from Purgatory? So far, you haven't addressed the pith and substance of Article 18 - not that you have to.

But if you are going to convert me , you are going to have to do better than that!

Alex