www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Married in America

The point by Stefan is true. Patriarch Josyp ordained quite a few married men in Rome.

Bishop Isidore and Vasyl (Filevich) have also ordained married men in Canada.

Bishop Losten didn't ask anyone in the Roman hiearchy the summer of 2001 for "permission" when he ordained two married men to the priesthood, nor did Bishop Elya a couple years prior when he ordained Fr. Andre St. Germain.

It is in our tradition, in our canon law, and we are a church sui juris. The bishop has full authority under the canons to perform the ordination, married or celibate, and that's the bottom line.

Since the American "Ruthenian" bishops have indicated that they are not competent to determine the acceptability of a married man for ordination, perhaps they should just delegate all their ordinations to the Pope as well!

I know for a fact that Bishop Robert (Moskal) has ordained married men from his eparchy, in his eparchy to the presbyterate. At least one of them served for a number of years beforehand as a ("permanent") deacon.

Lemko Rusyn,

I think that most of us would agree that the fiasco over the particular law was unfortunate and, perhaps, short sighted on our part. I do not think that is justification for your ongoing insults to our hierarchs. Is there anything good you can say about the Byzantine Catholic Church? If not, why are you a member?

Admin

Dear Lemko,

Perhaps you had better take the Administrator's words to heart!

I don't think you would like being a member of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church . . .

Married priests or not . . .

To be one of "us," you have to be true blue (and yellow).

Frankly, Big Guy, I don't think you could whip up the ambition for that .

Alex

Administrator:

Glory to Jesus Christ!

With all due respect, I don't think Lemko Rusyn deserves to be criticized for criticizing the so-called chief shepherds of the American Byzantine-"Ruthenian" Church. The simple fact is, they have collectively failed to provide the vision and leadership needed to preserve this Church and ensure Her flourishing. The debacle of the particular law was not an isolated example but instead merely � and unfortunately � symptomatic of the B-RCC's entire history on North American soil.

Let's be frank: were these beloved hierarchs as concerned with feeding their flocks as with keeping their good reputation in Rome, we never would have accepted Ea Semper and Cum Data Fuerit, we never would have lost 100,000+ souls to the Orthodox Church, and we never would have understood ourselves as "Latin Catholics with a different Mass" � a false consciousness, if you will, still pervasive today.

How many of our bishops have failed to build up their flocks? How many take seriously Chrysostom's understanding of the challenges of the presbyteral/episcopal office?

"Wherefore, for this reason more than for all others, it concerns him whose office it is to teach others, to be experienced in disputations of this kind. For though he himself stands safely, and is unhurt by the gainsayers, yet the simple multitude under his direction, when they see their leader defeated, and without any answer for the gainsayers, will be apt to lay the blame of his discomfiture not on his own weakness, but on the doctrines themselves, as though they were faulty; and so by reason of the inexperience of one, great numbers are brought to extreme ruin; for though they do not entirely go over to the adversary, yet they are forced to doubt about matters in which formerly they firmly believed, and those whom they used to approach with unswerving confidence, they are unable to hold to any longer steadfastly, but in consequence of their leader's defeat, so great a storm settles down upon their souls, that the mischief ends in their shipwreck altogether." (On the Priesthood, IV.9)

I, for one, think Lemko Rusyn should be applauded for being truthful. His anger is "righteous anger" (1 Macc. 2.24), in service to the truth. Yes, we should be charitable to � indeed, love as we love God and ourselves � those who have done us wrong. But does agape mean ignoring the errors of others? God forbid! Were I in error, I would want those who love me to point out my error and correct me, with patience, love, AND honesty.

But I ask you: would our beloved Bishop Andrew ever suffer even gentle correction?

Yours in Christ,
Theophilos

Ouch.

I am a member of this Church because:

1) I was born into it / my mother, grandparents and ancestors belonged to it;
2) Despite not being raised in it, I rediscovered it in my mid-teens and embraced it;
3) I have seen what goes on in other Churches (and "churches") and I know that for all its/our flaws, we've got it as good as anyone else has in this world.

And there are many lay people, sisters, and priests without whom my life would be poorer; some of them have helped me in ways that nobody else could have. So my faith in this Church as an institution comes from the bottom up, not the top down.

Oh yes, and I believe that the BRCC still preaches the Truth, Jesus Christ, and is orthodox in its belief. That's kind of important to me.

I've made it no secret that I have been, well, underwhelmed by the hierarchs of this Church as of late, a much-beloved deceased Metropolitan chief among them. That's my opinion and I hope I am free to continue to express it. Bishops Michael (Dudick) and the memory of John (Bilock) are still much-beloved to me, as is that of Metropolitan Stephen (Kocisko). I have great hopes for Bishop John (Kudrick), though being a personal friend of his I am somewhat biased; as for the rest, I am basically neutral. Except for one, our current hierarchs are not responsible for the Particular Law of the Metropolitan Church of Pittsburgh.

In the last 15 years that I've been a practicing Byzantine Catholic, at no time have I seen the morale of our people lower than it's been in the last 5 years, mine included. Yet, unlike some of my Byzantine Catholic friends (many of whom are decades older than I) I still manage to care. If part of that manifests itself as complaints and criticism, then I am a sinful human being like any other. I don't think that's the only emotion I've ever expressed here; on the contrary, I have frequently expressed my opinion about what I like.

Next time I have something to say, though, I'll just post a smiley-face and be done with it.

"Fiasco"? Well, I never used a term like that to describe it. And you say that I'm harsh!

"on our part"? Maybe they asked YOU about it, but I must have been on vacation the day they came to my door asking me to participate in the drafting & promulgation process.

LR,

With all due respect, your reasons for belonging to the Byzantine Catholic Church are all cultural and societal. One should be a Byzantine Catholic because one finds Christ in our Church, because one believes what it teaches and because God has called you to be a Byzantine Catholic.

Regarding your other comments, do you not understand the difference between insulting our clergy and hierarchy and presenting a critical viewpoint on a specific issue?

Also, regarding "on our part" I have never been consulted by anyone (and I am certainly not worthy of it). I was speaking as a member of our Church. When one speaks about what the Byzantine Catholic Church speaks or does one speaks about what it does as a Church.

But since you are personal friends with one of our bishops maybe it would be best for you to express your concerns directly to him? That would surely be more useful to the Church than simple criticism of individual persons on an internet Forum that exists to help build up the Church.

Admin

As a BC, I hope that I should be able to find Christ in, and believe the teaching of any church in the Catholic communion. Or arguably in any Apostolic Church. At the same time, I am wired in a such a way that this search is more readily pursued and more richly rewarded within our BC church.

Is this a societal/cultural effect or a calling? I could only answer: yes. I don't see these ideas as mutually exclusive. The former bespeaks of love of the people of the church, the latter the love of God. These ideas, ISTM are not alternatives or even complementary; they are indivisibly intertwined.

djs

This doesn't make any sense. Was it not with Ea Semper that the first hierarchy was errected? How could hierarchs object to something before you had hierarch?

Axios

Admin,

I don't really want to butt into this, but didn't Lemko say that? And I quote:

Baloney.

even the maronites have married priests in the continent. Recently, 3 men were ordained in Buenos Aires and there are various married priests serving in latin America.

I think our hierarchs do quite a good job insulting themselves without our help, but the least we can do is let them know when they are doing so.

It may not be the dominant consciousness any longer, but it is still common. I deal with it on a daily basis in teaching ECF, and I've gone to the mat with several sets of parents over the past couple of years. Worse still, I've had other ECF teachers come up to me and tell me, "Well, Catholic is Catholic, after all".

So, if your baloney has a first name, it U-N-I-A-T