www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Mixing Traditions ...

I don't know if this is where this particular item belongs or not but I assume the moderators can move the thread if it is not properly placed.

My question is this:

Is there anything wrong with, or a problem with mixing traditions of the East and the West?

For instance if you are a Roman Catholic who decides (after prayerful consideration and much thought) to adhere to the traditions of an Eastern Church but desires to maintain some of the personal devotions of the West (for instance the Rosary) or if someone from an Eastern Church decided to adhere to the traditions of the Roman Church but wished to keep a tradition or personal devotion from the Eastern Church ...

Is there anything wrong with this "mixing" of traditions?

Let me take a stab at this....

Your private prayer life is just that - private. I see nothing wrong with mixing traditions here. Personally, I would recommend keeping clear as to what is from where, as well as the theology/philosophy behind each.

The danger, IMHO, comes when one mixes traditions in corporate worship. This, more often than not, does not lead to an enhancement of the "receiving" tradition, but it's diminution.

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

Thank you.

I wasn't thinking about the idea of corporate worship at all.

I was most definitely thinking specifically of personal devotions and prayers.

For instance during my conversion to the Catholic Church from a Protestant (Lutheran) background the Rosary was an extremely meaningful prayer and I credit the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary for the conversion of my husband.

While I am drawn to the Eastern Catholic traditions and I am deeply spiritually moved by the Divine Liturgy at the Ruthenian parish we attend I would not want to abandon a prayer that has such deep personal meaning to me.

I greatly appreciate your answer.

Peace,

Carole

Dear Carole,

I think that you will find, that most of us mix traditions privately ....even those of us that are cradle.

There is too much beauty and richness in private devotions and prayers of both the East and West that one cannot ignore.

I would agree that, corporally, one tradition should be stuck to.

Welcome to the forum!

In Christ,
Alice

Carole,

Alex (Orthodox Catholic) is always quick to point out that the Rosary really evolved from eastern prayer practices and that many Eastern Catholic and Orthodox cultures have adopted it.

Personally, I have a Rosary and a Chotki, as well as a chaplet to the Holy Ghost, a chaplet to St. Michael, and a Blessed Sacrament chaplet. I don't pray the chaplets very often, but I do alternate between the Rosary and the Chotki.

Although I am Eastern Catholic, my favorite saint is St. Teresa of Avila and I love her writings. However, I do read Eastern writings too, like the Way of the Pilgrim and the Divine Ladder.

After all, the Holy Father tells us in his encyclical, Orientale Lumen, to breathe with both lungs!

Tammy

Carole

Have you ever realised just how many times the Theotokos is mentioned in the Divine Liturgy ? Look at the number of prayers and petitions where She is mentioned .

<< It is truly right to bless you as the Theotokos, as the ever-blessed and immaculate Mother of our God. More honourable than the cherubim , and by far more glorious than the seraphim, without corruption you gave birth to God the Word . O true Mother of God we magnify you >>

With that as one wee example from the public prayer of the Church , how can anyone say that you should not use a prayer from another tradition that has meaning for you .

If you read here you will find that many will privately pray the Rosary - but at the same time many will also say that it is not part of the corporate public prayer of the Church.

As Kobzar said And I have to say that I think there are many of us here who do just that in our private prayer life

Anhelyna

I agree with this assessment as well. In my family, for instance, my wife is Latin and my children and I are Byzantine. We have nightly prayer time together, where I read a story from the Old Testament, we discuss it and then move into a time of prayer.

The prayer consists of the evening prayers from the Children's Byzantine Prayer book coupled with a personalized version of the Divine Mercy chaplet, which can be adjusted to our liturgical seasons ("For the sake of His Holy Nativity, have mercy on us and on the whole world." "For the sake of His Holy Ascension, have mercy on us and on the whole world." "For the sake of His life-giving Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.", etc etc...) since the mercy of Christ is made manifest in His whole life, consumated in His offering on the Holy Cross. We conclude by singing the Byzantine version of the Trisagion and the Hymn of Light.

All in all, it takes about 15 minutes, which is just the right amount of time for family prayer.

Just my two cents!

Gordo

Think of it as a patchwork quilt. Every piece comes from a different source, and a lot of them don't really look like they belong together.

But every piece has a special meaning to you, and somehow, once you've stitch them all together, they wind up looking beautiful!

Theist Gal, BEAUTIFUL! That's exactly how I see it too. It also doesn't have to mean that we have an 'eclectic spirituality' but rather, we use whatever 'tools' work best for us in our situation---it's pragmatic really. What works for one, may not work for another. For years I tried to use NOTHING 'Western' and found that I was the poorer for it...and that I was depriving myself of some VERY important elements that were necessary for sustaining my spiritual life and attaching me to the Lord. Alice (from our Forum here) helped to to see this...and it took me sometime to see how correct she was. At first I was 'kicking and screaming' but with time I've seen her great wisdom and experience is the only way (at least for me) to live a rich a full Christian life and to deepen my personal pilgrimage with the Lord. She is in a very real way...one of my spiritual mentors...and I am Eternally grateful to her for all of this. If I do or say anything worth while here (for example) it is due to her tutelage and example. A priest-friend of mine (a priestmonk in the Russian Synod Abroad) also tried to explain this to me many years ago, but we 'converts' often try to be "more Orthodox than the Orthodox" and can't accept this easily...it's spiritual pride actually, I believe. Anyway, I continued on my own path and had to reach 'rock-bottom' before I could see the wisdom in using all the resources that are available to all of us in both the Christian East and West.

May the Lord reward Alice, now and in Eternity for her great gifts to me!

In His Holy Name,
+Fr. Gregory

The Church has two lungs, as our Holy Father has mentioned. There is nothing wrong with breathing with both lungs and experiencing the prayer of the other.

The danger comes, as Andrij has wisely pointed out, in a syncretistic approach of making a liturgical mishmash of both. We have for many years been trying to move beyond many Latin elements that crept into our liturgical use in the East.

Each Catholic tradition has its own very unique approach, spirituality, theology, character, and personality in worship.

But while they work together, they are unique and intact and each has its own identity. Each has its own beatiful liturgical tradition.

But as has been mentioned, private prayers are your own. I know many "mixed marriage" families with one member Greek Catholic or Orthodox and another Latin and they have devotion similar to what you have described.

Many Eastern Christians pray the Rosary and various litanies, etc. And many Latins use the Jesus Prayer as well. If you do choose to use the devotion of another church, take a bit of time to learn the history, development, and spiritual basis behind it. It will enrich you even more when you say the prayer or devotion.

Dear Father Gregory,

Bless!

You are too kind. I am humbled by your kind sentiments.

You too have taught me SO much about Orthodox theology and Orthodox spirituality. I am sure-- infact I know-- that I am not alone in feeling this.

I thank you for your ministry, your down to earth and approachable manner, and for your compassion.

May God bless you.
In Christ our Lord,
Alice

Thank you very much everyone. Your responses were awesome and very helpful.

I look forward to learning more from you all!

Dear Father Gregory,

I want to post this before Alice gets a chance to stop blushing.

When I first found this forum and started reading the posts, as I would read Alice's posts I would think to myself, "Now here is a true Christian". Whether she is Orthodox or Catholic or both is beside the point, She is truly a Christian. Her attitude is not about who is right and who is wrong but about the love of Christ and how we can be led closer to Him.

As for you Dear Father, with your recent proliferation of posts, I find myself reading in awe the wisdom which you have decided to share more often with us. You really are ministering and carrying your ministry to the members of this forum. I am not just learning about the Eastern Churches here, or about who one feels is right and who is wrong, but through many of your posts I am learning more about the love of Christ. I thank you for this.

There are many who post here who have a lot to offer and teach us,(Alex, Neil, Diak ... to name a few), but keeping Christ front and center is something you and Alice do very well.

Many years to all at this forum!

In Christ, Bill

As for mixing traditions, my morning commute to work is about 35 minutes long. While driving I pray first the Eastern introductory prayers,(Holy God..., Heavenly King..., Most Holy Trinity...), followed by the Latin Rosary and my own personal prayers for the day. I'm usually finished as I pull into the parking lot. If I'm not, I sit in my car until I am.

My prayer corner at home consists of a Latin crucifix, Eatern icons of Christ and the Theotokos and a couple of small beautifully done hand carved statues that belonged to my grandmother and given to me by my mother when my grandmother died, a Bible, the Daily Roman Missal, the Byzantine Book of Prayer, Nasser's Book of Divine Worship and another Latin prayerbook. So you can see, my prayer life is all mixed up betwwn east and west.

Bill

Dear Carole,

Although I am not as good as others in keeping Christ front and centre here, my two cents' worth anyway.

The Rosary has its own tradition in the Orthodox East and St Seraphim of Sarov was most zealous in promoting it.

Today, the Encyclopedia of Orthodoxy, published in Moscow, 2003, recommends the "Rule of the Mother of God" and outlines 15 mysteries to meditate on as the Our Fathers and Hail Mary's are recited.

In the case of the Rosary, it is entirely acceptable in Orthodoxy and Eastern Catholicism as a result and is not a Latin devotion that has somehow been adapted to the East.

According to St Seraphim, it happened the other way around, with a monk of the Thebaid receiving a revelation from the Theotokos about reciting the prayer daily.

And I'll try to be more personally pious . . .

God bless you and everyone here for a holy Lenten season!

Alex