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Dec 29th, 2019
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Joined: Nov 2001
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John Member
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John Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,680 Likes: 14 |
Photius,
You passed judgment on Alice�s spiritual life. Public discussions of someone�s personal spiritual life violates the rule of Christian charity.
Please formally withdraw your comments about her choice of spiritual father and apologize for commenting on her spiritual life. If you ignore my request again you will forfeit your posting privileges for 30 days.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Administrator,
I have summarized the main points of this thread on a new thread which I just created, "more discussion on reuniun now" and which is located here on the "East and West" forum. I included Ghazar's points too. Hence, this thread can be closed without hampering discussion of the topic.
--John
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Dear Ghazar,
I recall a Jewish girl telling me many years ago, that had there not been friction with the Arabs, the Israeli state would have had a civil war. If it did not, it was because they had a common enemy.
I also recall that the German Jews had a great intolerance towards the Eastern European one's until the rise of Nazism where both were equally exterminated.
Taking this into account, maybe if we started to realize that we Christians have two common enemies, (one is Islam and the other secularism), we would stop our intolerances, competitivness, holier than thou attitudes, nit picking and what not, and start striving for unity.
Of course we could be waiting for extermination. Well we're getting it in Europe and the Middle East.
In Christ,
Zenovia
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Originally posted by harmon3110:
Recently, RayK posted a thread about starting a new lay website, and perhaps a new lay movement, in order to further union of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.
I disagree with this. I'm not trying to criticize only RayK's suggestion. I'm also criticizing the whole idea of pushing for immediate reunion.
I do not support the reunion of the Western and Eastern Churches now. There is too much ignorance of the East in the West for reunion now. There is too much bitterness towards the West in the East for reunion now. The theologies and practices have grown independent of each other too much for reunion now.
In other words, the Church has been divorced for a thousand years. The underlying problems long predate the separation of 1054. Indeed, in my opinion, many of the problems can be traced to a difference in personality between East and West, as reflected (and compounded) by differences in language and thought that goes all the way back to the founding fathers of Western and Eastern Christendom. For centuries, like in a marriage, there was a harmony between the two personalities. But then, over time, the two sides grew apart. Then, they split; and for a thousand years they have each been saying the other is wrong and they are right and so on. Real divorces between two human beings are messy enough, and they take years to sort out and to achieve a measure of civility. But a divorce of a thousand years ?
Reunion now? Reunion with what, of what, if there is no true repentance? And how can there be true repentance without true knowledge and true understanding, of ourselves as well as of the other? And how can there be any of these, if now there is widespread ignorance and bitterness of each other and if there is pride in both?
The separation of the Churches will take *time* to heal.
It will also take the official agreement of the bishops.
It will also, probably, take more mixing of the peoples themselves. Most of the Christian East is in the East; most of the Christian West is in the West; and how can we be reunited, after a thousand year divorce, if our peoples can actually **be** with each and get to know each other? The internet helps --tremendously-- but it is not the same as physically being with each other.
In the USA, perhaps when the Orthodox convert enough Catholics and Protestants that people take notice, perhaps *then* there will be a real dialogue between east and West: because the �other� will then be our inlaws, nephews and grandkids!
Etc.
And so, I do not support reunion now.
Instead, I support more of what we are doing at this Forum. Then, I support sharing what we have learned with our respective Churches and communities. Most of all, I support personal sanctity: as example and enablement of the ultimate reunion in Christ. We are not the reunion committee. We are the yeast in our respective loaves, our respective Churches. Hopefully, with our effort and with the leadership of the hierarchs, our Churches will rise together, like rising loaves of bread, and, one day, become one Church, one Body in Christ.
Comments?
--John I agree.
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First of all, it might surprise you that the Church of God is already united. It is united by its very nature for there is only One Church, One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One God and Father of all. It is called the One Holy Catholic and Apostoloc Church. And it behoves all of us to come into communion with that Church which is the Body of Christ.
Stephanos I
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Originally posted by Stephanos I:
First of all, it might surprise you that the Church of God is already united. Stephanos I You are a priest of God my friend. Even on the days when we did not agree - I could always tell - you are a priest of God - and you give God. -ray
-ray
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We should have a forum conference as it would be nice for everyone to meet, why, maybe even some could duke it out jk. i would be gald to host  as I do not like to travel that much any more. Stephanos I unworthy monk and archsinner
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