www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West The Holy Fire on the Internet (Live from Jerusalem)

Like Mor Ephrem, I hauled myself out of bed at 6:00, but when I logged on at about 6:10, the clock still had an hour to go. But when I checked back between 30 and 40 minutes later, the countdown was gone, and there was a video of the completed event. I hope we will get another chance next year. As for the authenticity of this event, I have no doubt of it at all.

Vicki

This could be why the internet broadcast was late. How sad -

THE ARMENIAN PATRIARCH TRIED TO BLEMISH THE HOLY LIGHT CEREMONY

Jerusalem, May 4, 2002

According to tradition, at noon on Holy Saturday the Greek Orthodox
Patriarch Irinaios entered the shrine of the Holy Sepulchre with the
Armenian Patriarch (a right of the Armenian Patriarch according to the
conditions governing the pilgrimages). After Patriarch Irinaios prayed in
the main chamber and the Holy Fire lighted his candles he came out to the
Chapel of the Archangel where the Armenian Patriarch tried violently to grab
the lighted candles from his hands so that he would go out first and give
the Holy Light to the people outside the tomb. A small incident occurred
between them and Patriarch Irinaios managed to come out of the tomb and give
the Holy Light to the people as Greek Orthodox Patriarchs do for centuries.
A small fuss happened between the Armenians and the Orthodox resulting the
interference of the police, who took the Armenian Patriarch out of the Holy
Sepulchre.

With this action the Armenian Patriarch tried to undermine Patriarch
Irinaios and the Orthodox rights in the Holy Sepulchre.

Later on Patriarch Irinaios stated that: "We are determined to give our
lives to preserve our rights".

OrthoMan

What?!

Orthoman, have you a link please to the source of this article?

As if we Levant Christians have anything better to do in the present regional turmoil and hell than to conduct ourselves in the manner of the 19th century custodians of the Holy Sepulchre. As if we still require the chaperoning of the Turks. Bloody shame, if this report is true.

In IC XC
Samer

Dear Samer,

I understand this sad report is very true.

The Greek Patriarch responded in tried and true fashion along the lines of "resist to the death every last change" etc.

However, we Easterners are a feisty bunch!

Ecumenical Councils often ended in fisticuffs, as you know.

St Nicholas beat up Arius. The Oriental St. Dioscoros of Alexandria beat up St Flavian of Constantinople.

So what's a friendly wrestling match between Patriarchs?

Alex

{Orthoman, have you a link please to the source of this article?}

Articles concerning it appeared in both Russian and Greek newspapers. An article about it appears on pravoslavnie.ru. For English access -

http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/news020504.htm

OrthoMan

Dear Orthoman,

People who come forward to receive the Holy Light carry a lantern as have pilgrims for centuries.

Is the intention to keep it burning for as long as possible? Did not Russian pilgrims try to bring it home with them?

Alex

[Is the intention to keep it burning for as long as possible? Did not Russian pilgrims try to bring it home with them?]

Yes. And many of them were successful in the past as they are today. Olympic Airlines even allows the flame to be carried aboard their plane in special containers.

OrthoMan

I watched this most glorious miracle from the site, and I must say, this is the proof of the glory of God. I must have explained what I know of this miracle to at least 10 people, all around 15 (my classmates) and I have told told them also about the number of other miracles occuring as we speak, yet they still refuse to believe the truth. I guess all that new age psychic "crossing over" junk got to them all. That or they don't care... yet...
As for the shameful act of the armenian patriarch, stop me if I'm wrong, but didn't a different armenian patriarch try this before? I find this to be a disgrace to the meaning of this truly ecumenic miracle and I find the disrespectful actions of the rest of the attendants rather shameful as well (though correct me if I'm wrong, if they are filled with the spirit at the time or some other miraculous occurence).
On a side note, who else has noticed that many "authors" and "theologian wanna-be's"/"historians" today are writing more an more on controversial subjects such as the virginity of Mary... they speak as thouhg their words have more authority than 2000 years of teachings and miracles (go figure). I personally think that they are feeding off an ignorant society that sees something that gives them an excuse to be immoral (that's what half my friends do). My favourite example is "the other bible, the gospel of Thomas and other apocrypha", the way people say "see, this is proof the bible is wrong!". Yeah, too bad we've already known about those books longer than they were "recently discovered".
That is the type of thing from the movie stigmata... such a terrible movie. Now I'm just drifting from the subject, sorry. Post that which you see fit.
-In peace,
Justin, lowly sinner.

Dear Justin,

Actually, when I first heard of Stigmata, I couldn't stand it, because my cousin saw it and she was never well grounded in stuff, and so she started thinking that the Church was hiding something. But once I actually saw the movie, I realised that, if you're rather solid, you can watch the movie with no problems...I don't care for the theological inaccuracies within it, but otherwise I thought it was a pretty good movie. I like Gabriel Byrne, I think he's a good actor, and though I didn't care about her much before, I liked Patricia Arquette just a little better...just a little.

I'll probably get in trouble for that one too...