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Leader of Turkish Nationalist Church Dies

.c The Associated Press

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) - Selcuk Erenerol, leader of a nationalist Turkish Orthodox church that fervently denounced links to Greek Orthodoxy, has died. He was 76.

Erenerol, who died from a heart attack late Thursday, headed the Independent Turkish Orthodox Church, which broke away after World War I from the Istanbul-based Ecumenical Patriarchate, widely considered the spiritual leader of the world's Orthodox Christians.

Erenerol, who became patriarch of the Turkish church in 1991, was sometimes nicknamed the ``patriarch without a community'' as the church had few followers. However, it held several Orthodox churches in Istanbul- making it the center of a property dispute with the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

Istanbul, Constantinople in Greek, was once the capital of the Greek Orthodox Byzantine empire, and was captured by the Muslim Turks in 1453.

Erenerol's church, founded by his father Papa Eftim, sharply denounced any links to its Greek heritage, conducted its liturgies in Turkish, and quickly won favor in the Turkish Republic formed from the ashes of the Ottoman Empire in 1923.

``They consider themselves the relics of Byzantium and we consider ourselves Turks,'' Erenerol told the Turkish Daily News in 1996.

Turkey dismisses the Ecumenical Partriarch's role as head of Orthodox churches arounnd the world, recognizing him only as head of Turkey's dwindling Greek community, which has shrunk to less than 5,000 in a city of more than 12 million.

Erenerol repeatedly spoke out against trips by the Ecumenical Patriarch, currently Patriarch Bartholomew I, calling them assertions of the patriarch's universal role.

Erenerol resigned this year as patriarch to protest what he considered Turkey's increasingly lenient policies toward the Ecumenical Patriarchate- tolerating for example Bartholomew's lobbying efforts abroad. Erenerol said Turkey was turning a blind eye as part of its bid to join the European Union. Turkey never accepted Erenerol's resignation.

``The national struggle we waged for 80 years has come to an end,'' Erenerol wrote in his letter of resignation. ``This decision will make the Ecumenical Patriarchate and Greece happy. Now you can enter the EU.''

Erenerol is survived by his wife and three children. His funeral is scheduled for Sunday in Istanbul.

My former friend is a Turkish girl who belongs to the Orthodox (Canonical) Patriarchate. She called herself Turkish, not Greek (though she is Greek-Turk). She said that in many parishes, the liturgy is conducted in Turkish and not in Greek (only a few parts in Greek, I suppose the trisagion, the our father...)

Many of the young Orthodox there, do not feel represented by HH Bartholomew and are very critical of his trips (therefore, his role as theleader of WW Orthodoxy), and the way the Church is governed in Turkey. There's a serious crisis in the Church, there's a terrible decline in Mass attendance, there are almost no vocations (specially there's a needing of Turkish speaking priests, because some of the priests imported from Greece are alienating the people from the parishes) and the Church is totally unable to offer a christian option for Turkish people who are desperately looking for Christ (and there are also many infamous agreements with the Turkish masonic government: the Church is closing parishes and deliberately supresses its missionary job among Turks).

About that schismatic Turkish orthodox Church group, it was always a farse, only a few modernists followed it. Kat told me that they accepted the civil marriage as a "sacrament" and were in service of the masonic Turkish regime of Ataturk. The leader wasn't even a priest!!!

I never had heard of this group, but am glad that they are defunct. The scriptures say to worship in the language of the people. The Patriarch of Constantinople seems to be fulfilling this, according to the post above. I know that even in Greece, an Albanian language parish was set up in Athens and a Slavonic language parish was set up in the western suburbs of Thessaloniki. In Albania they have parishes which worship in Albanian, some in Greek, and some in Vllach (Romanian).

To correct the Assoc. Press, both Constantinople and Istanbul are Greek names. The first is "city" (polis) of Constantine. The second comes from "they are going" (istan) and "city" (polis) thus: istanpolis/istanbul.

There actually is a large Turkish-speaking Orthodox community in Moldavia. They call themselves the Gagauz and are supposedly speaking a Turkic language. There may be 500,000 or so.

Some Albanians have claimed them as "their own," but I haven't seen any convincing links. Albanian is not a Turkic language.

They remain a kind of mystery ethnicity and have even tried to break away from Moldavia. Their claims are now for autonomy, or so I heard.

Canonically, I believe that they fall under the Church of Russia, but again, I'm not sure what has happened in practice in terms of liturgical language, etc.

If anyone knows more about this fascinating subject of Turkish Orthodox, please post!

Warm regards.

"In Albania they have parishes which worship in Albanian, some in Greek, and some in Vllach (Romanian)."

There's an ethnic groups called Aromanian, who speak a dialect similar to Romania, but "more latin" and with albanian influence. There a parish that celebrates in Aromanian (however, the Romanians now want them to be "Romanians" and the Aromanians want to be different

"There actually is a large Turkish-speaking Orthodox community in Moldavia. They call themselves the Gagauz and are supposedly speaking a Turkic language."

No, actually the Gagauz are not related to the Albanians but to the Turks. It is thought that they were Turkish christians who lived in Constantinople and left after the arrival of Islamic Turks. Other claim that they were Turks who had the Armenian religion, and who adopted the Chalcedonean faith when they came to a Russian-dominated land.

Most authors agree with the first theory, this is clear because the Gagauz follow the Greek tradition and not the Slavic one, and their influences are more Greek than Slavic.

They are currently under the Moscow Patriarchate together with the Russians of Moldova, the Romanian ones are trying to be under the Romanian Patriarchate (there's a court trial there)

Yes, Romanians feel a special kinship with Albanians because they are both "Thracian" peoples - I am told.

Herb

Glory to Jesus Christ! Christ Is Born!

1. I've never heard of this Turkish group either. When I was in Turkey, I met Protestant missionaries who had their Turkish Bibles in hand.

I'm so happy to hear, though, that the Good News is being spread... and hopefully the words "Orthodox Church" will be given a bit more weight than the word "Greek" before it.

We, as Christians, have such a huge responsibility to share the Good News. I pray for those speading news of Christ among the Turkish people. When I lived in Turkey, I met many who were not convinced in the secular view of things. They knew about Christians, but were mistaken about so many things: who Jesus is; what the Church is; what the Bible says.... All of that Apostolic deposit of faith.

You think will all those titular bishoprics, one of them would actually move back to Nicea (Iznik), or Chalcedon (Kadikoy)!

3. I was in Moldavia in 1998-99, when the Gagauz petitioned Chisinau for autonomy. I also understood their lineage to be Turkic.

4. The Orthodox Church in Moldova has been yo-yoed between Constantinople/Bucharest and Moscow since the Russians first snipped off Bessarabia from then then Principality of Moldavia in the 19th century. The churches in Bessarabia (modern Rep. of Moldova) returned to the fold of the Bucharest Patriarchate after WWI. Moscow reversed that after WWII. The majority of parishes in Moldova are under Moscow. However, a number of parishes are under the Bessarabian Orthodox Church, which is under the Romanian Patriarchate. The Moldovan government did not want to register the Bessarabian Church. They've appealed it all the way to the European Court.

A Blessed Christmas to all of you!

God bless,
Christopher
Armenian Catholic

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I mistakenly wrote "3", not "2"

Sorry about that!

Christopher

Yeah it is sad that Protestants (there are some baptist and episcolpalian sects) are gaining faithful instead of the traditional Apostolic Churches. I do believe that the Apostolic Churches must not be so passive I mean, Turkish people also have the right to receive true sacraments and the fullness of the Gospel.

Dear Brothers,

Thanks for the additional info. As I said, I don't believe any link between Gagauz and Albanians has been shown.

Remie, thank you for clarifying who the Arouman in the Balkans are. That is their truly correct name, although they often call themselves Vllach (from Wallachia). And Herb is right that the Dacians and Albanians were both part of the Thraco-Illyrian language sub-family. Even today, there are still some grammatical aspects shared by the two languages.

It has been the policy of the Turkish government to allow Protestants to convert only non-Muslims, i.e. Armenians, Greeks, etc. This will change with EU application, hopefully.

The explanation that the Gagauz were Turkish-speaking Christians who fled the Islamic Turkish seizure of the empire is highly plausible and I tend to believe it, but supposedly has no substantial documentation to support it. We would expect the Romano-Byzantine commonwealth to have advertised their success in converting Turks! And then some record or oral tradition regarding their exodus to Moldava to have been preserved! However, perhaps they were slaves first, then converted, then fled quietly at the break-up in the 15th century. Who knows?

I worked in cryptology and would love to (see someone) break this riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma!

Warm regards on the eve of the Nativity.

There are many cell or home churches--comprised of former Muslims--in Turkey, whose preachers and evangelists go about their "business" unobstrusively and elusively i.e., they don't make waves while they rely on the E.U. starved politicians/bureaucrats to look the other way.

The Kingdom of Heaven is like the mustard seed.....

Abdur

Abdur,

This is good news! Are these small groups all Protestants, or are there such things as small groups of Orthodox? At least Protestants introduce people to Christ, sort of. It is better than Islam. But why is Orthodox missionary work not being promoted by the Orthodox? Is it only fear that keeps them from it or is is unorthodox behavior by the Orthodox? :rolleyes:

Dan Lauffer

Turks associate Catholicism and Orthodoxy with foreign cultures and foreign control. Not so with "Bible Christianity" which is indigenous and not associated with foreigners, a characteristic the xenophobic Turks find appealing.

Abdur

Yes, Abdur is right. My gf said that the Orthodox Church is generally associated with Greeks, and I'm not surprised, the Church doesn't make an effort to have missions among Turks because "it would offend the government." Patriarch Bartholomew was a former soldier of the Turkish Army and at the beggining of his Patriarchate he was very enthusiastic and there was a lot of renewal, but then something happent and everything dissappeared.

Catholicism, on the other side, is very much associated with Kuridsh terrorism, there are many communities of Latin Rite Kurds (some of them are converts) and there was a good labour of jesuit missionaries among them (but all of them re from the Latin Rite). I don't know if you heard about the two Kurdish jesuits who were brutally tortured and killed by Turkish policemen, I think it was in 1999. The masonic government of Turkey commits horrible violations of human rights, specially against christians.

Here is a link to the Eastern Catholic parish in New Rome:

http://rumkatkilise.org

Albanian is an Illyrian language. In Romans 15:19, St. Paul writes "with mighty signs and marvels, by the power of God's Spirit. As a result, I have completed preaching the gospel of Christ from Jerusalem all the way round to Illyria. (NAB)" Illyria is the Greek word for Albania (Latin Illyricum).

About 1/3 of Albania is nominally Christian (but these numbers among believers may be quite low, however secularism is very strong). Of those, 2/3 are Orthodox (strong in the South and the cities) and 1/3 (in the North, centered around Shkoder, but in Tirana as well) Latin Rite Catholic (with a Byzantine Rite group in Elbasan). The Orthodox are primarily Tosks and the Latin Catholics primarily Ghegs (including Mother Teresa's family). The Protestants are quite active in their missionary activity.

The statement about Greeks and Vlachs is correct (especially the Greek). Many villages around Gjirokaster are Greek speaking and almost entirely Orthodox in faith. However, they are virtually depleted of young people due to emigration. The average Albanian makes $1,100 per year (with a huge desire of the young to emigrate).

However, the Albanian Autocephalous Orthodox Church also has Macedonian parishes in the East and Montenegran in the North. At the Theological Academy of the Resurrection in Shen Vlash Durres (the Theological Center of the Albanian Orthodox), one can also hear a strange liturgical language ... English (lol).

Christ Is Born! Let Us Glorify Him!

Three Cents