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Looks like the article was removed.
I will only say from my own personal experience that what Ron experienced at St. Seraphim's has been completely consistent with every encounter I have had an an Orthodox Church. That kind of ethos has a certain draw for many of us here, and were I not convinced in conscience of papal primacy and the need for it even within a eucharistic eclesiology, I would be communing with Ron and the rest of my Orthodox friends here on this forum.
With that said, my family and I very much love the Eastern Catholic Church we now attend, and have experienced much of the same earthy/heavenly goodness.
I will only add that scandal is never a reason to "convert", if such a thing can be said of moving from Catholicism to Orthodoxy. (The label "conversion" is more appropriately applied, sans any ritual, to those who move from liberal Catholicism to orthodox Catholicism, as the distance between the two is far greater than the distance between orthodox Catholicism and Orthodoxy, IMHO.)
And we Catholics will never be able to fully come to terms with the depths, the heights and nature of this scandal. And it has affected us in many and various ways - some very close to home. As the father of three, if ever I knew that I priest had abused one of my cherished treasures, I doubt I could restrain myself physically, canons be damned, and I am not a violent man by nature. It is the nature of fatherhood to protect, not to exploit. I certainly understand Ron's feelings on this, and am glad for him that he is at peace, even if I do not fully embrace his position.
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I was able to bring up the article, and here is an excerpt from it: "Orthodoxy and me" by Rod Dreher I apologize for this very long post, but it's time to clear something up: yes, I am now a communicant of the Orthodox Church, and have been (along with my family) for a couple of months. I did not intend to make this public until the end of this month, to honor a personal and professional obligation that, the violation of which stood to hurt some innocent people. This is why I've taken care since the day I entered Orthodoxy not to claim I am Catholic in writings here, and not to rise to the bait of certain people in the comboxes who have demanded that I declare myself. Though I've wanted to get this out there, and not to deceive readers, I had an obligation to keep this to myself until month's end, for an important reason I can't really discuss. But now I am forced to reveal all early. Why? Because a certain malicious reader, a perfect stranger and petty little Catholic Prufrock named Jonathan Carpenter, who is unhealthily preoccupied with me nearly to the point of cyberstalking, troubled himself to write a letter to a priest at my parish asking about my ecclesial affiliation -- and when he received his answer, undertook to publicize it. So, here we are. I apologize to readers who feel deceived or betrayed. That was not my intent; my intent was to honor a prior obligation, whose terms were soon to end anyway. I only now have to give you the long explanation two weeks early. What follows will be lengthy, but it will be all I intend to say about this matter. I know that the comboxes will be filled with discussion, much of it spiteful and vitriolic, and that there's nothing I can do about that, except refuse to join it. But here is how I ended up where I am today. [. . .] See, this is why you won't see me ballyhoo my conversion to Orthodoxy as I did with my conversion to Catholicism. Partly it's because I still consider myself to be among the spiritually walking wounded. I need to build myself up in Christ, and in ordinary Christian piety. I believe that God rescued me from a pit partly of my own making by showing me Orthodoxy, and through the witness of the people of St. Seraphim's parish. I have to laugh when well-meaning people say, "Well, Rod's still looking for the perfect church, I wonder what's going to become of him when he figures out that the Orthodox Church is screwed up too." Shoot, the Orthodox Church in America is neck-deep in a financial scandal at its pinnacle! Don't they think I see that? I am perfectly aware that sexual sin and the temptation to cover it up or deny it exists in every human institution. I do not imagine that I have escaped that in Orthodoxy. I am incapable of being the kind of gung-ho Orthodox as I was a gung-ho Catholic. I've learned my lesson. What I do have in Orthodoxy, though, is a second chance to get it right. To receive the Sacraments as an aid to theosis, and to learn to love the little platoon around me, building up the community and my own family. Had I started out this way as a Catholic, maybe it wouldn't have come to this. But I did, and here I am, and God is merciful. I don't want in any way for this to come across as an apology for entering Orthodoxy. I am not ashamed of it, and indeed I am grateful for God having provided for me and my family, lost and drifting as we were. Still, I think my feelings must be like that of an exile who had to leave his native land, and who is grateful for his new country but who will never be able to forget whence he came -- nor does he want to. I grieve having disappointed friends, and no doubt many of you, who have been so kind to me over the years with your prayers and encouragement. I can't expect you Catholics to endorse my move, but I hope at least you will pray for me and my family, and with me for the ultimate unity of Orthodoxy and Catholicism (by the way, I took as my patron saint in Orthodoxy Benedict of Nursia, who as a pre-schism saint is also revered by the Orthodox; I also chose him in part to honor Pope Benedict, whom I cherish). I hope also that my own example will encourage others -- Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant -- to look seriously into their hearts, and detach themselves from both idolizing the Church in the place of Christ -- this is partly what led to the Scandal, and partly what led me to put myself in a position where the Scandal destroyed my Catholicism. And I hope my example helps people to deal swiftly with anger before it masters them. As far as tradition goes, I have moved with my family to a church that I believe stands a much better chance of maintaining the historic Christian deposit of faith over time. To be more blunt, I have moved to a church that in my judgment within which I and my family and my descendants will be better able to withstand modernity. Basically, though -- and this is as blunt as I can be -- I'm in a church where I can trust the spiritual headship of the clergy, and where most people want to know more about the faith, and how we can conform our lives to it, rather than wanting to run away from it or hide it so nobody has to be offended. In the end, we all depend on the mercy of God to deliver us from our faults and errors. I have no intention of talking about this conversion further, either on the comboxes or this blog. (Nor, by the way, do I intend to avoid critical comments about any church; I am an opinion journalist.) I owe it to my family, and to my God, to avoid the nasty combox polemics that will inevitably follow this revelation. I can't keep any of you from saying whatever you will -- and no doubt, the Jonathan Carpenters of the world will have their day. I'm a public person, so I have to put up with that. Still, those of you more charitably inclined, please just pray for me and my family, that we always live in truth, and do the right thing, and be found pleasing to God, the Father of us all. posted by Crunchy Con @ 10:27 AM [ beliefnet.com] | Comments (319) [ haloscan.com]
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I found this on the site Todd posted: Statement of Bishop Dimitri [ pokrov.org] I am puzzled by some statements made recently by participants n the conference of Roman Catholic bishops concerning the problem of what to do with priests who are guilty of sexual abuses, homosexual and other behavior. Some have seemed hesitant to adopt the "zero tolerance" policy advocated by others, calling for mercy on those guilty of only one offense.
It would seem natural and prudent that they consult the Church's canons -- these still held in common with the Orthodox Church, the Apostolic Canons -- which are clear enough: Those guilty of such sins and crimes can repent, even be restored to communion with the Church. But continue as priests? Never. They are to be deposed, for their own sake, and for the sake of those who trust the clergy as having a responsibility for guiding others to salvation.
Offering forgiveness and mercy is not inconsistent with proper discipline and maintaining order within the Body of Christ. The age-old canons of the Church are based on Scripture, and they exist, in part, to prevent the kind of confusion that seems to be revolving around this particular issue at this time
Archbishop Dmitri
Archbishop of Dallas and the South
Orthodox Church in America He is absolutely right - there should be no shock at "no tolerance". Gordo
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I asked Father Anthony (moderator) if the active thread could also include the October 13th 'postscript letter' written by Dreher which is presently in the 'new' but closed/switched thread.
Amazingly, Dreher said he didn't read over his original post of the 12th prior to posting it and wanted to write the additional explanations on the 13th.
CS
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Ron Dreher Part II for Communion of Saints "CS"
Clarifying
That post I put up about my conversion to Orthodoxy was not only the longest post ever, but it has attracted the most number of comments. I wrote the post in one two-hour stretch, and posted it without re-reading it. So there are some things I want to make clear that might not have been from the long, rambly opus.
1. I am not now nor do I have any intention of being an embittered ex-Catholic. Quite to the contrary, after I got out from under the burden of feeling responsible in some way for the Scandal -- that is, for fighting it -- I was able to reacquaint myself with the great things about Catholicism. I literally pray for the Pope daily, and for the Church, and can now better see the Catholic Church in her totality. My preoccupation with the Scandal, the filth and the extreme injustice the institutional Church visited upon children and families hid that from me. I freely confess, because I deeply believe, that there is great truth, beauty and holiness in the Roman Catholic Church. You won't find a Catholic-basher in me (though I will continue to be critical where warranted, in my role as an opinion journalist; it's just not personal anymore).
2. I don't deny that reason played a minor role in my conversion. It was primarily emotional and psychological -- but I do deny that that minimizes matters. As I've said, a decade ago, I argued with a friend considering Orthodoxy and Catholicism that all that mattered was doctrinal truth. He said he worried about raising Christian kids in the mess that is US Catholic parish life. I dismissed those concerns, and said he should instead concentrate on the doctrinal arguments. Well, real life -- and having kids of my own -- showed me how brittle that position was, and is. Human beings are not machines. We all have to work out our salvation in fear and trembling, between radical objectivity and radical subjectivity. I used to think that being a Christian was merely a matter of finding the most logical arguments, intellectually assenting to them and doing your best to live by them. It is far more complicated than that, and I found through the scandal my intellect humiliated. A dear friend of mine used to be Orthodox, but left in his teenage years because he desperately needed Christ, and the only experience of Orthodoxy he had was in his family's spiritually dead Greek parish. He is now a passionate Evangelical. I used to think he was fooling himself. I still couldn't take the path he chose. But I understand why he chose it, and have no interest in judging him, only helping him to be as faithful to Christ as he can be.
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Originally posted by Pseudo-Athanasius:
Take a browse through orthodox websites, and you'll find the same sort of thing.
Not that tu quoque excuses it. This thread is not about other sites though, it is about the blog owner in question's decision to become Orthodox. Consider this quote that appeared in the comments Return to the One True Church. The Catholic Church for Salvation. There is no salvation for you in the so called "Orthodox" Church. Your "conversion" is phoney. A real convert would argue he joined the Orthodox because he found it to be true & would try to pursuade others to embrace that truth. I don't see any of that here so I beg you for the sake of your immortal soul. Come home brother. Not only is this person denigrating the Orthodox Church with his comments, he is suggesting that one who converts to Orthodoxy puts their soul in peril. That is a profound statement of disrespect, and something I have never heard an Orthodox person say to someone who decided to convert to Catholicism. IIRC, someone who posted here recenty heard something similar from a Roman Rite priest. Andrew
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I found Mr Dreher's post to be quite heartfelt and not the least bit boring. I was almost brought to tears as I realized much of his story was my story. I loved my church with all my heart. I happened to make some similar discoveries regarding clergy and 'reported them' to the bishop as well. The lies, denial and character assassination that followed created deep spiritual wounds within me.
I did not convert to Catholicism- I was a cradle Catholic, active in many ministies, rarely missing a Sunday of Holy Day.
The public clergy scandal and events of 9/11 changed something deep within me. I couldn't explain it, even to myself. I just knew I had to get out to preserve what was left of my soul. I left my church and attended no church for several years. By chance I happened upon a small Orthodox church filled with mostly converts from Protestantism.What a difference in the character of the parish. I was immediately welcomed. They were alive in their Faith and I knew it.
I felt a burden was lifted from me, the pain I lived with faded and I am increasingly filled with peace. I cannot receive the Eucharist but I can accept that for now, as I feel God has led me to this place. It doesn't matter anymore that I am not 'under the Pope'. I can pray to my God with others who love him in a way I love Him. I can be nourished again. I know I will never return to the church of my grandfathers, but perhaps Orthodoxy was the church of my ancestors all along.
I understand Mr Drehers pain because I have lived a part of it. I hope he finds the peace that I have found and I wish him well.
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Dear Andrew and Pseudo-Athanasius,
Let's not get into polemics. Offensive remarks about the other are not exclusive to either Roman Catholics or Orthodox.
Thank you.
In Christ,
Alice, Moderator
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I would like to write that just because some Ultramontanist thinks the Orthodox are all damned doesn't mean that that is the official teaching of the Catholic Church.
The persons who wrote such things are ignorant. No one knows the state of Mr. Dreher's soul except God Himself, and to judge another person's soul breaks the First Commandment. By their fruits do we know others, we can only judge actions not Eternal Destinies. Besides that, the Orthodox Church has the same Sacraments (Mysteries) as the Catholic Church so if he did commit any sins they would be forgiven in Holy Confession!
I apologize to any Orthodox Christian who may have been offended by uninformed remarks by my fellow Catholics. (If I can do so.)
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No matter who you are, if you are converting from one faith to another; or even one Church to another; or one denomination to another; there are going to be people who are upset. There is no way to do it without hurting or offending someone. What we converts must do is to convert with as much humility, love, and graciousness as we can muster. I think it helps when we, who are about to make a transition, feel not only enthusiasm, but a bit of pain and sadness as well. That is certainly what I am feeling right now; deep sorrow.
In the end, we must all respect the conscience of one another. I am convinced that there is no self-evident answer to the question,"Where is the true faith? Where is the true Church?" I personally see how one can convert from one to the other in either direction and I find it difficult to believe that God really cares. But I do think that God does care about whether we love one another as Jesus has loved us. I am glad that this thread was started and that I was able to read Mr. Dreher's articles on his blog. Perhaps, the biggest step toward unity between our two Churches would be to truly respect the consciences of all our members and give people the freedom to make their own, well-informed decisions. As I said earlier, if my wife and children don't come with me, or if my children decide to return to the Catholic Church, then they have my blessing. I want them to do what their conscience tells them is their duty. Indeed, if my children were to become buddhists or jews, thoughtfull and out of duty, then they would have my blessing. If I expect to be treated with dignity because of the decisions I make, then I must respect the conscience-bound decisions of others. Notice though; I said "conscience-bound." I am not advocating approving everything everyone does. For example, I seriously doubt that anyone, out of conscience, gets an abortion, becomes a pimp, or becomes a thief (Robin Hood excepting).
And just remember, that no matter who you are and what you believe, there are one or more contingents of people in this world who think you are going to hell. You can't please everyone, even if you are Mother Theresa. Peace in Christ,
Joe
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Originally posted by JSMelkiteOrthodoxy:
I want them to do what their conscience tells them is their duty. Indeed, if my children were to become buddhists or jews, thoughtfull and out of duty, then they would have my blessing. Hmmm...but what about the truth? It is one thing to love them unconditionally (which sometimes includes "tough love") it is quite another to offer a "blessing" as their father for apostasy. Maybe I am reading more into this than you intended, but as a father I could not "bless" what I believed to be a "curse". I would see it as a violation of my priestly service to my family. Gordo
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Originally posted by ebed melech: Originally posted by JSMelkiteOrthodoxy:
[b] I want them to do what their conscience tells them is their duty. Indeed, if my children were to become buddhists or jews, thoughtfull and out of duty, then they would have my blessing.
Maybe I am reading more into this than you intended, but as a father I could not "bless" what I believed to be a "curse". I would see it as a violation of my priestly service to my family.
Gordo [/b]Gordo, I might not be pleased that they were taking a step that led them further away from the Orthodox faith. But, in the end, one must obey one's conscience. It would actually do them no good to remain Catholic or Orthodox against their consciences (I know that seems absurd to us, but I don't think that it is impossible that one could come to such a conclusion in good faith). They would have my blessing not so much to become buddhists, jews, etc. but to act reasonably and in good faith. Peace in Christ, Joe
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If Dreher has found a home on Orthodoxy, then I say more power to him. We can only follow the path that God has lit up ahead of us, and maybe that's where God wants him to be right now.
However, my quibble would be this: I would not leave the Catholic Church because of the corrupt priests and bishops Dreher so rightly condemns - I would insist that those priests and bishops leave instead!
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Originally posted by Theist Gal:
If Dreher has found a home on Orthodoxy, then I say more power to him. We can only follow the path that God has lit up ahead of us, and maybe that's where God wants him to be right now.
However, my quibble would be this: I would not leave the Catholic Church because of the corrupt priests and bishops Dreher so rightly condemns - I would insist that those priests and bishops leave instead! Theist Gal, I like your way of thinking  . And I agree with you, one should become Catholic or Orthodox only out of a conviction of what is the truth, not because one is unhappy with particular individuals in the church. Peace in Christ, Joe
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However, my quibble would be this: I would not leave the Catholic Church because of the corrupt priests and bishops Dreher so rightly condemns - I would insist that those priests and bishops leave instead! Theist Gal, Easier said than done, unfortunately. They aren't going anywhere as long as they continue to protect each other and pacify us with forked-tongue. Its easier for them to get rid of you than the other way arund. They after all are the leadership, you a body in a pew.
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