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Joined: May 2004
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Hi,
I've been following the posts re Dreher's conversion (449!) ,well, not every single one, and there's been a real change in the tenor of posts; seems people of mature faith are finally posting and their words are so beautiful and inspiring (even if you don't believe some of their insistence that only their faith is true). Please go read the last 10 or 15. Particularly Alan King, and Lee.

http://www.beliefnet.com/blogs/crunchycon/2006/10/orthodoxy-and-me.html

Peace,
Indigo

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Also, reading these posts makes me so appreciative of the moderators here. Some of the posts on Dreher's blog are truly vicious. The air here is so much healthier.

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Quote
Originally posted by The young fogey:
What Ilian said. I don't agree with Dreher on some issues but he doesn't talk the church thing into the ground in his blog and definitely doesn't deserve the treatment he's getting in his com-box and some blogs.

'I'm sorry to hear that and hope you come back' is legit. The ad hominems are not.

Wondering's description isn't entirely true IMO. What that person did, 'outing' him, sucks. Dreher has the right to say so and didn't give it more space than it deserved.

I won't get into truth claims.

The man has converted twice, staying in one place over a decade. I'd say that's stable. So it wouldn't be fair to say or adopt a tone of 'What's he converted to now? How long's this gonna last?'

Ditto. I found Mr. Dreher's account to be lengthy but interesting. I respect him for following the courage of his conscience.

Mostly, I note his tone of repentance. He confessed to being a "gung-ho" over-enthusiastic Catholic, more a "professional Catholic" than anything else. So, as he wrote, he partly set himself up for a fall. And then, as he wrote (emphasis added by me):

Quote
I believe that God rescued me from a pit partly of my own making by showing me Orthodoxy, and through the witness of the people of St. Seraphim's parish. I have to laugh when well-meaning people say, "Well, Rod's still looking for the perfect church, I wonder what's going to become of him when he figures out that the Orthodox Church is screwed up too." Shoot, the Orthodox Church in America is neck-deep in a financial scandal at its pinnacle! Don't they think I see that? I am perfectly aware that sexual sin and the temptation to cover it up or deny it exists in every human institution. I do not imagine that I have escaped that in Orthodoxy. I am incapable of being the kind of gung-ho Orthodox as I was a gung-ho Catholic. I've learned my lesson. What I do have in Orthodoxy, though, is a second chance to get it right. To receive the Sacraments as an aid to theosis, and to learn to love the little platoon around me, building up the community and my own family. Had I started out this way as a Catholic, maybe it wouldn't have come to this. But I did, and here I am, and God is merciful.
It's sad that he couldn't find that second chance within the Catholic Church. It's there, for the asking. But, I'm glad that he found his way to God; and I hope it works out for him.

-- John

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I did not find Rob's conversion story too convincing, but one point that I can sympathize with him is being drawn to a 'family,' atmosphere. Speaking as a former evangelical that is a pretty big thing, and one that I have missed since coming back to the Catholic Church (even though when I came back it was in favor of the Byzantine church instead of the Roman Church of my youth). Since our return to the BC I have found much that has changed in that regard. I have tried to come up with things to do, but it doesn't get very far & is a source of frustration. Indeed, I just commented on to my wife on the way home from liturgy that aside from the liturgy & mostly good homilies where we go isn't a good 'spiritual home.' Does anyone know of a good Byzantine parish in the Pittsburgh area that offers more than just the liturgy?

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Ron's story is almost my own. I went through the same journey. I contacted Bishops and tried to reason with them. They wouldn't believe me.

Finally, I had to do what was best for my family as my son who was nine at the time was scared to death of Roman Catholic Priests. He wore double underwear to church, prayed, took Karate lessons, and then one day ran away from home early one morning while we slept. When he came home, he told me that we had to find a church where the priests were married. I was faced with having him lose his faith or converting to Orthodoxy. My husband was very upset as he wanted to remain Catholic, but once he met the Orthodox Priest, his fears were allayed.

In our process of conversion to Orthodoxy, we had to make many changes which required a deep metanoia. Ultimately, the Ekklesia saved our marriage and our son's faith. For that reason, I am deeply grateful. Yes, at first we were running away like scared kittens, but then we found that we were running into the arms of Christ and His Holy Catholic Church.

The Orthodox Priest would not receive us by Chrismation until he felt that we had put on Christ. We had to ask forgiveness of all the Catholic Priests that we had offended in our move. Furthermore, we could not harbor any hatred of the Roman Catholic Church because the Orthodox Church is the Holy Catholic Church.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory forever.

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I think about my own decision and the possibility that one day, one of my children will come to me and say, "Dad, I have decided to return to the Melkites," or "Dad, I believe in my heart that luther was right and I am becoming an evangelical." I must confess that I will not tell them not to. I will suggest to them all of the things that I think they should consider. But I will respect whatever decision they make as long as it is informed and based on a sound conscience. Peace in Christ
How can anyone put luther and melkite together in the same sentence. These are apples and oranges. No orthodox was ever able to respect the Lutherans..

Theres a billion reasons to tell your child not to become a lutheran!!!

What am I on the protestant forum!

Do any orthodox here really lump together protestants and catholics as all in the same boat? all western wackos?

(I'll concede some high anglicanism does have apostolic succession to my knowledge)

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Originally posted by Criostoir McAvoy:
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I think about my own decision and the possibility that one day, one of my children will come to me and say, "Dad, I have decided to return to the Melkites," or "Dad, I believe in my heart that luther was right and I am becoming an evangelical." I must confess that I will not tell them not to. I will suggest to them all of the things that I think they should consider. But I will respect whatever decision they make as long as it is informed and based on a sound conscience. Peace in Christ
How can anyone put luther and melkite together in the same sentence. These are apples and oranges. No orthodox was ever able to respect the Lutherans..

Theres a billion reasons to tell your child not to become a lutheran!!!

What am I on the protestant forum!

Do any orthodox here really lump together protestants and catholics as all in the same boat? all western wackos?

(I'll concede some high anglicanism does have apostolic succession to my knowledge)
I think you missed the point of what I was saying. In all honestly, I think it is highly unlikely that either of my children will ever have the slightest inclination to become lutheran. The point was that just as I expect people to respect my conscience, so I must respect the conscience of other people, even when I disagree with the decision they are making. Is it really self evident what the truth is in matters of religion? I don't think so. I think that even getting close to the truth is hard work. I can see all kinds of reasons why someone might think the lutheran confessions are the best expression of Christianity. And I mean reasons based on good faith, not rationalizations or excuses. I may no longer believe that the pope is infallible, but one thing I do know is that I am definitely not infallible. Peace in Christ,

Joe

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Quote
Originally posted by Elizabeth Maria:
Ron's story is almost my own. I went through the same journey. I contacted Bishops and tried to reason with them. They wouldn't believe me.

Finally, I had to do what was best for my family as my son who was nine at the time was scared to death of Roman Catholic Priests. He wore double underwear to church, prayed, took Karate lessons, and then one day ran away from home early one morning while we slept. When he came home, he told me that we had to find a church where the priests were married. I was faced with having him lose his faith or converting to Orthodoxy. My husband was very upset as he wanted to remain Catholic, but once he met the Orthodox Priest, his fears were allayed.

In our process of conversion to Orthodoxy, we had to make many changes which required a deep metanoia. Ultimately, the Ekklesia saved our marriage and our son's faith. For that reason, I am deeply grateful. Yes, at first we were running away like scared kittens, but then we found that we were running into the arms of Christ and His Holy Catholic Church.

The Orthodox Priest would not receive us by Chrismation until he felt that we had put on Christ. We had to ask forgiveness of all the Catholic Priests that we had offended in our move. Furthermore, we could not harbor any hatred of the Roman Catholic Church because the Orthodox Church is the Holy Catholic Church.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory forever.
my new priest wanted to make sure that I was converting to the Orthodox church for the right reasons as well. That is something I greatly admire about him. He wanted to make sure I was not converting simply because I was angry with the Catholic Church. I am converting to Orthodoxy because my conscience tells me that it is the true faith without distortion. Peace in Christ,

Joe

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