www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West E C children receiving communion at R C Mass?

Just came across this wonderful account of the intervention of the R C Bishop of San Bernardino in the case of a Melkite family who wanted their children to be able to receive Communion when they occasionally attended Mass in the Roman Rite:

http://www.melkite.org/sa37.htm

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

Juridically, of course, Melkite kids can receive communion in any "Catholic" parish since they are allowed to do so.

Practically, however, the local RCs might take a collective seizure at a little kid receiving.

It seems to me that the most practical response would be: go to church where you belong; if you are "outside" your community, then don't cause scandal among the "others" by demanding your other-Church rights/rites. They won't understand.

Since there is no "need" to receive communion at the Sunday liturgy (especially for the puppies!), then don't make an issue of it. Smile sweetly, say your prayers and get "home" as quickly as possible. By staying and making a scene among the "others", one can be legitimately accused of pride in trying to elevate or distinguish one's self among the "others". And this is not good. Either the Roman folks will come to see us as "rebels" or "instigators", or they'll be very confused and thereby hurt.

When the Lord tells us to give "Peace", it is clear that we need to make sure efforts to ensure it is our reality.

Blessings!

Glory to Jesus Christ!

St Nicholas, Patron of Children Pray for Us!

Dr. John makes a good point about not scandalizing. I would guess that is just one the concessions that one pays to be an orthodox in communion with Rome.

When I had a son who married out of the Orthodox Church and had a daughter, I spoke to him very seriously about the Rights of the Christian Child---the Right to be baptized
--the Right to be Chrismated and have the presence of the Holy Spirit with the child always, and most important,
--the right of the child to partake of the Blessed Savior in the Eucharist every Sunday and on all feast days. To feel the presence of the Lord and know that God is with Us.
It is to these rights that we as parents need to assess our own actions and decisions about the spiritual life of our child.

We do not have an Orthodox Church with a priest in our town. We travel about an hour to get to services and then an hour back after services. We took all five of our children to Church every Sunday and they had the opportunity to "Taste and See the goodness of the Lord." I feel it eventually has born fruit, all my grandchildren are now baptised, even the daughter-in-law who was raised as an atheist has converted to Christ. I believe that it is important that children be fed regularly with the most precious body and blood of Christ.

Perhaps parents need to look at their priorities and committment to the Lord and their Children. Its either locate close to a byzantine Church so their children can be spiritually fed regularly or else commit to the travel time to get to a Byzantine Church where they can obtain their rights and be fed spiritually with regularity.

We have never regretted the travel time---we play church chants and music on the tape player, listen to the stories of Orthodox Saints on tape, say our prayers before communion, and share spiritual stories on the way in. On the way back we had time to process the sermon and share the catichism lessons from the day with each other. What we did miss was the Sunday Football games, the Sunday Afternoon at the Movies, and other activities that take the focus off of Christ on the Lord's day.

Your brother in Christ,
Thomas

What a great narrative! Thanks for sharing that. (How did you keep the kids occupied all the time? I'll bet the review of the sermon wasn't always that engrossing. Elmo?)

Blessings!

As someone who has faced this issue personally I strongly disagree with Dr John's advice.

I do not think it is "pride" to want one's children to receive food for their spiritual life. When I was in this situation I always approached the Roman priest beforehand and if I received his blessing I had the children communed. Fortunately I never had a denial but if I had I would have graciously accepted it. One priest even mentioned who we were and spoke glowingly of the Byzantine liturgy during his homily.

The RC's I run into in this area are very aware of the Eastern Church and are open to our different theology of the Sacraments of Initiation. My kids recently went through the preparation for First Reconciliation in the Roman parish we attend now and the text we used clearly spelled out the Eastern approach as part of its historical development of theology. It specifically mentioned infant communion as part of our practice. So, RC parents who take their kids to "Sacrament classes" are instructed in the differences these days. The people in the adult Sunday School I'm in are all the EWTN crowd and are very familiar with the Catechism's explanation of the differences between Eastern and Western Catholics and how our infants receive Communion.

What kind of message does it give your kids when visiting a Roman parish to tell them:

"No. Not this time."

"But, Daddy, why?"

By our actions do we teach our kids to dislike their Sister Church? Do we reinforce the stereotype that we're just "step-children" in the Church to our own children?

I think that interaction between our Church and the Roman Church is not something where we just "smile sweetly" and then run "home." In fact, it wouldn't hurt for more interaction to take place, IMO.

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: DTBrown ]

Dr. John

Glory to Jesus Christ and the best wishes for the Feast Day of St Nicholas!

Sorry no Elmo on our trips. Actually it was not as hard as one might think. The Greek Archdiocese and now the Antiochian Archdiocese are creating some great material for young children that includes audiotapes of the Troparia and Kontakia in English (something hard to find in English at times), some lives of the Saints, and now one can get from Regina Press and Counciliar press great stories aimed at the younger children. My wife and audio taped some of them so even the little ones (now my grandchildren traveling with us) can follow in the book they brought along, you know the ones---with lots of pictures.

We spiced up the trip home with treats for those who told us what they thought the sermon was about or could share their catichism class lesson with us (and those who couldn't, well they got treats too in the end) The travel secret is probably best said to be prepared--- my wife and I would look on Saturday for the right stuff to bring to occupy the kids and keep them focussed on the Lord coming and going.

Your brother in Christ,
Thomas

I have to agree with DTBrown on this one. It not the fault of the Eastern Catholic but rather the lack religious education given to the Latin Catholic. Once a Latin Catholic understands the difference I am sure they will except it with open hearts and minds. An Eastern Catholic should NEVER be ashamed of his/her Rights/Rites!

I think my dear friends Dr. John and Professor Brown are not in disagreement here. It is not excessive pride to WANT one's children to receive. The question of pride is how one goes about it when a guest. Professor Brown situation was polite and respectable actions on his part and a satisfactory response from our Latin friends. The other situation, I think, the individual lacked Professor brown's grace and had some difficulties.

I can argue against Latin clergy and laity being fully educated abotu every aspect of the Eastern churches, but I am sure if one were prioritizing, not every Latin curate in Sotuh Succatash, Okla., needs to be able to cite every detail of Byzantine practice.

K.

Here is a situation for you. You are a Byzantine Catholic living in PA not far from your local Church etc... You have 2 small children and are happy the can receive the sacrament. For whatever reason you HAVE to move to New Orleans LA.. There is NO Byzantine Church with in 5 hour drive from your new home. However, next door is a RCC. Do you A not cause scandal and tell your small children they can NO longer receieve the Sacrament or B talk to your the RCC priest and work something out. ???????

I cant type! Nor can I spell! Please forgive all of my Grammatical Errors! I am really not this dumb Believe Me I really am not this dumb :-) ha ha ha! Yes I am this dumb

In the RC churches here, the message has been rather different than Dave's experience in Oregon -- it basically was (1) why don't you receive in your own church, (2) let's not do it because the rest of the parishioners won't understand and (3) it doesn't *really* matter, does it, because your kid is so young. My former EC priest advised that one should ask the priest beforehand, but if the response is negative that one should leave it at that. I think it varies based on the area -- in this area there isn't a lot of knowledge about the Eastern Catholic Churches (or the Eastern Orthodox Churches) among Roman Catholics.

I think if one lives in an area where there are EC churches available within a reasonable distance, one should go there and not to the RCC, and if one goes to the RCC one should not expect that one's children will be admitted to communion. When I was Eastern Catholic, the issue never came up because we either went to our EC parish or, when travelling, went to an Orthodox parish. We never went to RC Mass when we were Eastern Catholics.

Brendan

brenden,

Did you receive communion in those Orthodox Churches? You know I dont want to get off the subject but neither Church I think would like that.

God Bless!

No, I did not do that, because I respected the discipline of both churches.

First of all, it is a pastoral, not a canonical situation, so obviously one cannot say what the "right" answer is.

I would guess however, if you have permanently moved and the children are 18 months and a newborn, you might well start adopting the practice of your new parish. If the the kid is 5 or 6, I don't see the issue of scandal being real. And if the parents are convinced this would be tramatic to the child, maybe they shouldn't move.

K.

Dear Kurt,

This would really be a problem for me if I were in that situation, since I love New Orleans so much!

(Don't tell anyone, but I am rather addicted to Mardi Gras beads. I wear them with my I.D. card at work . . .remember, please don't tell anyone).

Alex