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Do you know exactly who are the patriarchs of Antioch?

How many Patriarchs does it take to run an Antioch?

1. Syrian Orthodox Church - H.H. Moran Mar Ignatios Zakka I Iwas, Prince Patriarch of Antioch and all the East.

2. Syrian Catholic Church - H.B. Ignace (fill in the blank, though I want to say Pierre...), Patriarch of Antioch of the Syrians.

3. Maronite Catholic Church - H.B. Mar Nasrallah Pierre Sfeir, Patriarch of Antioch of the Maronites.

4. Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch - H.H. Ignatius IV, Patriarch of Antioch and all the East.

5. Melkite Catholic Church - H.B. Ignatius (?) Gregory III, Patriarch of Antioch and all the East, of Alexandria and of Jerusalem.

I think that's all...someone correct me, I'm sure I must have gone wrong somewhere...

Just a small correction. The Melkite Patriarch is simply H.B. Gregory III (Laham).

Edward, deacon and sinner

So, who would be the true Antichocian Patriarch? Of the orginal Church of Antioch?
(as noted one of the Pentearchy). Would that be a Syrian Orthodox???

Interesting. I thought H.H. Ignatius IV is the true one. But he's Greek Orthodox? I thought he was Syrian Orthodox.

But very informative, though. Thanks.

Since I don't believe in returning to "one bishop per city" but rather "one hierarchy per rite" I would hope that in a reunion of all Catholic/Orthodox Churches, the Melkite Church would reunite with the Antiochian, and the Syrian Catholics and Orthodox would reunite, leaving us with a Byzantine Patriarch of Antioch, a Syriac Patriarch of Antioch, and a Maronite Syriac Patriarch of Antioch.

anastasios

Based on an article I have in my hand, the Melkite patriarch would have the strongest claim to being the historic succession, though all fo them make claims to such. The Syrian Orthodox schism in 451 was not supported by the current Patriarch, and tehy set up their own. In the 1700's the Melkite patriach affirmed his union with Rome and Constantinople appointed a competing patriarch.

Olga

Of course the Melkite candidate was also only 16 years old and had been consecrated by his uncle.... :-)

anastasios

Dear Olga,

"Melkite" means "Emperor's man" and those who sided with the Byzantine Emperor at the Council of Chalcedon who were kind of regarded as traitors by many of their countrymen.

A city may have more than one See and does, as Anastasios has written.

The fact is there are Roman, Byzantine and Oriental Patriarchs at Antioch and will be for some time to come.

The first two Churches, hooked on the "Pentarchy" model of the Church with five patriarchates, each hurried to appoint its own patriarch there to replace the excommunicated (by them) Jacobite Patriarch.

The Oriental Patriarch is the descendant of the ancient Patriarch of Antioch established as a See by St Peter the Apostle.

Alex

One more serious response to Olga's post:

I would have to say that the Chalcedonian Patrarichate would have been somewhat "more" legitimate at the time of the schism: I say this since we are Chalcedonians;

However, during the middle ages the Syraic Rite was destroyed by the Chalcedonians with the result being the byzantine Patriarchates (Antiochian and Melkite).

Therefore I'd have to say that the Syriac Orthodox (Non-Chalcedonian) is the "legitimate" patariarch of Antioch just like Pope Shenouda (not Greek Pat. Petros or Coptic Catholic Pat. Stephanos) is the legitimate of Alexandria.

But like I said, since some are Syriac, and some are Byzantine, we don't need to ever "go back to one."

Of course, the Maronites would say that both the Byzan. and the Nonchalcedonian Syrians were wrong.... :-)

anastasios

Sorry about that, Rev. Dn. Edward...I thought that all patriarchs of Antioch took the name of Ignatius automatically.

double post

[This message has been edited by Mor Ephrem (edited 05-31-2001).]

Technically I'm not under any of the above Patriarchs, but I believe, all things considered, the Syrian Orthodox Patriarch is the legitimate successor to the See of Peter in Antioch, and that's why in my list I listed him first.

And I say that not just because I'm non-Chalcedonian...

We also acknowledge those Three Synods, sacred, holy, and ecumenical; namely, that of Nicaea, that of Constantinople, and that of Ephesus... Canon of the Holy Fathers, from the Syrian Liturgy

This reminds me of a conversation that I had with a good friend from high school who is Antiochian Orthodox (Greek Patriarch).

He was adamant that there was only one TRUE patriarch of Antioch.

I didn't think it would be good to ask which one....somehow I think the two of us may have named someone different. We ended up by leaving it at that.

In Christ,
Mike (poor sinner)

Dear Catholicos Mor Ephrem,

I agree wholeheartedly with you and Anastasios!

The "Suriani" have perhaps the greatest heritage of Christian evangelical missionary witness than any other Church in history.

And both the Roman and Byzantine Churches wanted to maintain the original Five Patriarchate system of the Church within their own jurisdictions which is why they each have their own Patriarchs etc.

Qadisha Alaha
Qadisha Khailathana
Qadish la Maiyoutha
Ethrahkhem Ailaen!

(The Trisagion in Syriac).

Alex

The original patriarchate of Antioch was the syriac one, but when the syriacs became herethics or monophisite after the council of Chalcedon the syriacs were rejected by the Orthodox (Catholic) Church.

The greek-byzantine people who accepted the council of Chalcedon, had a different national identity and their one patriarch (melkite). After the schism between Constantinople and Rome the melkites broke with Rome and the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch was the original byzantine patriarch of Antioch.

The maronites were a group of syriac christians who broke with the monophisites and scaped to Lebanon (I know very little about them) and were aided by the french crusaders (that's the reason most of the them have french names).

The syriacs or jacobite were isolated until a big group of them established full communion with the pope of Rome (If I'm not wrong the syriac catholic church is now bigger than the jacobite!).

Some byzantine arab christians became catholics with their one patriarch, while the pro-turkish ones followed the patriarch appointed by Constantinople.