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Originally posted by Michael_Thoma:
Eli,

The Society of Jesus was at one time a most forbidable rock of orthodoxy, nowadays it seems it depends on the individual - for example, I trust that Father Mitch Pacwa is truly orthodox; but who knows about visible, very public Jesuits like Fr. Drinan who openly support abortion - without the Superior General's intervention?

Sidenote: I read that the Superior General is an Armenian Catholic, does he support any Eastern "causes"?
Is he now an Armenian Catholic? Has the Reverend Superior General of the Jesuits been incardinated into the Armenian Catholic Church?

A portion of his biography says:

Quote
Kolvenbach was born Nov. 30, 1928, in Druten, a village northwest of Nijmegen, Holland. He attended Canisius College, Nijmegen, for his secondary studies where he concentrated on modern languages. On Sept. 7, 1948, he entered the Jesuit novitiate at Mariendaal, Holland. He was ordained a priest in 1961.

After completing his doctoral studies in Armenian in 1967, Kolvenbach served as minister of Jesuit students at the University of Saint Joseph in Beirut, Lebanon. In 1969 he took his final vows and worked in Beirut for the next five years in several capacities.

In 1971, Kolvenbach was transferred to the Vice-Province of the Middle East—an area of the world where he would serve for the next decade. In 1974, he became provincial of the Vice Province of the Middle East and concurrently taught general linguistics and Armenian while conducting refugee work in Lebanon. He was appointed to the faculty of the Gregorian University in Rome in 1981 and also served as rector of the Pontifical Oriental Institute.
On the future of the Society of Jesus, the 29th Superior General of the Order had this to say in an interview with ZENIT on July 30, 2006:

Quote
Code: ZE06073023

Date: 2006-07-30

On the Future of the Jesuits

Interview With Superior General Father Kolvenbach

ROME, JULY 30, 2006 (Zenit.org).- Last February, Father Peter Hans Kolvenbach, father general of the Society of Jesus, convoked a general congregation for January 2008, to elect his successor.

It was an unexpected announcement, as the office is for life, but the superior general has his reasons.

In this interview with ZENIT, Father Kolvenbach explains why he called the meeting, and what other important issues the representatives of the world's close to 20,000 Jesuits will also address.

Q: What symptoms prove that the moment has come to call a general congregation?

Father Kolvenbach: St. Ignatius did not favor the idea of general congregations being called at a fixed period. He thought that the preparations necessary to convoke a general congregation and to call a large number of Jesuits worldwide to Rome might affect the apostolic work in which they were engaged.

Therefore, he prescribed that only "for reason of great importance," when the issues were of such magnitude that they went beyond the capacity of the Society's ordinary government to address, should a general congregation be convoked. In fact there have only been 34 general congregations in the 465-year history of the Society.

The Church and present-day society are facing problems that require careful and creative examination.

Globalization, emigration, massive displacements, relativism, secularization and so many others are challenges that to one or another degree affect all countries and impose important changes on our apostolic planning. The general congregation is the instrument available to the Society to find, with God's grace, the way to serve the Church and the world.

To this very important reason is added another of a personal nature: the many years I have had at the head of the government of the Society and the suitability of electing my successor.

St. Ignatius saw valid reasons to prescribe that the office of superior general be for life. And, of course, it cannot be denied that it entails certain advantages.

However, that decision of St. Ignatius was made in the 16th century when life expectancy was much shorter than now. Ignatius died at 65, a rather advanced age for the time, after having been superior general for 15 years. His two immediate successors died respectively at 53 and 62 years of age, after a generalate that in both cases was reduced to seven years.

Compared to them, my period as superior general is already longer than 22 years, and if God so wills, in 2008 I will be about to celebrate 80 years of age and 25 as superior general. These are circumstances which question legitimately the appropriateness of putting an end to such a long period.

Q: There have been ups and downs in the relationship between the Society and the Pope. Why?

Father Kolvenbach: In the framework of a special relationship between the Pope and the Society of Jesus -- desired and professed by both parties -- it is understandable and human that historical circumstances influence the tenor of this relationship.

On the other hand, as Pope Paul VI said so affectionately, in an address in which points of attention were not lacking in regard to certain tendencies he observed in the Society. The Jesuits have always been in the trenches, at the crossroads where problems have been debated that did not always have a clear answer.

It is not strange that, in the service of the Church, some abandoned the security of the trenches to launch themselves defenseless beyond the orthodox demarcations in search of new answers to new problems.

The case of Father Mateo Ricci is enlightening. Profoundly knowledgeable of the Chinese culture and mentality, he made the effort to show that reverence to ancestors was not an idolatrous worship as was said in the West, but a social and family custom which did not contradict the Christian faith or justify the denial of baptism to those who remembered their ancestors in that way.

This position made him the target of criticisms by other religious and, finally, of Rome's condemnation. There is no doubt that this closed the door to many possible converts. Only in the 20th century was Ricci recognized as ahead of his age in the proclamation of the Gospel and as a precursor of inculturation in the missionary endeavor.

Not all the Jesuits who have been called to Rome can attribute to themselves Ricci's preparation and nobility of intentions, but neither have those who have served the Church with faithfulness and dedication been few, who were not recognized until a long time after. Father Teilhard de Chardin is, perhaps, one of the most representative cases.

Q: The spiritual life of Jesuits is, of course, one of your concerns as superior general. Will it be a topic to address at the general congregation and, if so, in what terms?

Father Kolvenbach: On examining the state of the Society at the meeting of all the major superiors, which we had in Loyola in December 2005, we came to the conclusion that the spiritual health of Jesuits was good. The instrument to measure Jesuits' spiritual health has always been and continues to be, unconditional consecration to the mission.

Today as yesterday it is profound personal identification with the Lord, the one sent by the Father, which characterizes and defines the way to proceed in the Society. However, it will in any case be a topic that the general congregation will address because it is proper to the Jesuits not to be satisfied with what they have achieved.

We must serve the Lord in a society in which trivial thought reigns supreme and tends to undermine a profound love of Jesus Christ and an unconditional commitment to the mission. That is why it is a topic of constant timeliness which undoubtedly the general congregation will want to put on the table, though it is still too early to venture into speculation on the congregation's agenda.

Q: There are many institutions of the world, especially universities in the United States, called Jesuit, but in which the presence of Jesuits is very reduced. Have you thought of some solution?

Father Kolvenbach: This situation has not arisen now. We have already addressed it before and we agreed to accept that this situation of a reduced presence of Jesuits has led us to discover new avenues: the incorporation of lay men and women in our works in consonance with the splendid rise of the apostolic awareness of the people of God, a "sign of authentic hope" as Benedict XVI called it recently.

We believe the desire of the laity to take an active part in the mission of the Church to proclaim the kingdom is a grace of our time, inspired by the Spirit. The last general congregation exhorted Jesuits to be "men for others and men with others."

It is true that the decline of vocations to religious life -- and also to the Society -- has been a stimulus to bring about that cooperation with the laity which the general congregation of 1965 had already urged. But it is not about alleviating a shortage, but about opening ourselves to a latent apostolic reality in the Church.

The "solution" which you refer to is to cooperate in our works with lay men and women who act under Ignatian inspiration. In fact, there is already a number of Jesuit institutions in which positions of responsibility are entrusted to lay men and women. The number of Jesuits physically present in these institutions is not decisive if we have men and women imbued with the Ignatian spirit to serve the Church.

Q: Will some juridical formula be studied, during the next congregation, to integrate lay men and women in the Society of Jesus?

Father Kolvenbach: The last general congregation gave it a green light so that for a decade, on an experimental basis, the provinces were able to establish groups of men and women associates united with a contractual agreement without that implying integration in the body of the Society.

In this way their lay vocation is safeguarded even when they take part in the Jesuits' apostolic work. The experience of these last years will be subjected, without a doubt, to discernment by the general congregation.

Q: The Xaverian and Ignatian Year is being celebrated. What do you expect from these celebrations?

Father Kolvenbach: The obvious desire is that on remembering the three first companions -- the memory of Blessed Peter Faber, next to Ignatius and Xavier, must not be forgotten -- the Jesuits will revive in their lives and in their apostolate the three charisms that they embodied: to encounter God and unite oneself to him through the work to lead everything to its fulfillment, as Ignatius did; to proclaim passionately the Gospel as Xavier; and to deepen one's spiritual life as Faber.

Q: The preferential option for the poor, social justice, interreligious dialogue, refugees, the realm of culture and education, are only some of the Society's priorities. Is there a new field in which the Jesuits want to be involved?

Father Kolvenbach: The Pope reminded us recently -- on April 22 on the occasion of the commemoration of the 2006 Jubilee of the Jesuits -- what the Church expects from the Society with special emphasis on the field of philosophy and theology traditionally cultivated by the Jesuits.

As geographic preferences we feel called to contribute in a special way to the evangelization of Africa and China. But it will be material for reflection on the part of the future general congregation to discern if some of the situations of today's world, such as globalization, the cultural dialogue or relativism, for example, require an adjustment of our apostolic commitment.

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Originally posted by Michael_Thoma:
Eli,

The Society of Jesus was at one time a most forbidable rock of orthodoxy, nowadays it seems it depends on the individual - for example, I trust that Father Mitch Pacwa is truly orthodox; but who knows about visible, very public Jesuits like Fr. Drinan who openly support abortion - without the Superior General's intervention?

Sidenote: I read that the Superior General is an Armenian Catholic, does he support any Eastern "causes"?
Is he now an Armenian Catholic? Has the Reverend Superior General of the Jesuits been incardinated into the Armenian Catholic Church?

A portion of his biography says:

Quote
Kolvenbach was born Nov. 30, 1928, in Druten, a village northwest of Nijmegen, Holland. He attended Canisius College, Nijmegen, for his secondary studies where he concentrated on modern languages. On Sept. 7, 1948, he entered the Jesuit novitiate at Mariendaal, Holland. He was ordained a priest in 1961.

After completing his doctoral studies in Armenian in 1967, Kolvenbach served as minister of Jesuit students at the University of Saint Joseph in Beirut, Lebanon. In 1969 he took his final vows and worked in Beirut for the next five years in several capacities.

In 1971, Kolvenbach was transferred to the Vice-Province of the Middle East—an area of the world where he would serve for the next decade. In 1974, he became provincial of the Vice Province of the Middle East and concurrently taught general linguistics and Armenian while conducting refugee work in Lebanon. He was appointed to the faculty of the Gregorian University in Rome in 1981 and also served as rector of the Pontifical Oriental Institute.
On the future of the Society of Jesus, the 29th Superior General of the Order had this to say in an interview with ZENIT on July 30, 2006:

Quote
Code: ZE06073023

Date: 2006-07-30

On the Future of the Jesuits

Interview With Superior General Father Kolvenbach

ROME, JULY 30, 2006 (Zenit.org).- Last February, Father Peter Hans Kolvenbach, father general of the Society of Jesus, convoked a general congregation for January 2008, to elect his successor.

It was an unexpected announcement, as the office is for life, but the superior general has his reasons.

In this interview with ZENIT, Father Kolvenbach explains why he called the meeting, and what other important issues the representatives of the world's close to 20,000 Jesuits will also address.

Q: What symptoms prove that the moment has come to call a general congregation?

Father Kolvenbach: St. Ignatius did not favor the idea of general congregations being called at a fixed period. He thought that the preparations necessary to convoke a general congregation and to call a large number of Jesuits worldwide to Rome might affect the apostolic work in which they were engaged.

Therefore, he prescribed that only "for reason of great importance," when the issues were of such magnitude that they went beyond the capacity of the Society's ordinary government to address, should a general congregation be convoked. In fact there have only been 34 general congregations in the 465-year history of the Society.

The Church and present-day society are facing problems that require careful and creative examination.

Globalization, emigration, massive displacements, relativism, secularization and so many others are challenges that to one or another degree affect all countries and impose important changes on our apostolic planning. The general congregation is the instrument available to the Society to find, with God's grace, the way to serve the Church and the world.

To this very important reason is added another of a personal nature: the many years I have had at the head of the government of the Society and the suitability of electing my successor.

St. Ignatius saw valid reasons to prescribe that the office of superior general be for life. And, of course, it cannot be denied that it entails certain advantages.

However, that decision of St. Ignatius was made in the 16th century when life expectancy was much shorter than now. Ignatius died at 65, a rather advanced age for the time, after having been superior general for 15 years. His two immediate successors died respectively at 53 and 62 years of age, after a generalate that in both cases was reduced to seven years.

Compared to them, my period as superior general is already longer than 22 years, and if God so wills, in 2008 I will be about to celebrate 80 years of age and 25 as superior general. These are circumstances which question legitimately the appropriateness of putting an end to such a long period.
The rest of the interview:

http://www.zenit.org/english/

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Amadeus,

Very Rev. Fr. Kolvenbach was ordained a priest in the Armenian Catholic Church in 1961.

From INTERVIEW: A DUTCHMAN IN THE ARMENIAN RITE, Sept 1994
Quote
Ten years ago, the Jesuits elected a Dutchman, Father Peter-Hans Kolvenbach, as superior-general. Each morning at the Jesuit headquarters in Rome, while the rest of the community joins together for Mass, he is on his own in a little chapel saying the liturgy - in the Armenian rite.

It was in Beirut that Father Kolvenbach got to know the Armenian community and was ordained as a priest in the Catholic Armenian rite in 1961.

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Originally posted by Michael_Thoma:
Amadeus,

Very Rev. Fr. Kolvenbach was ordained a priest in the Armenian Catholic Church in 1961.

From INTERVIEW: A DUTCHMAN IN THE ARMENIAN RITE, Sept 1994
Quote
Ten years ago, the Jesuits elected a Dutchman, Father Peter-Hans Kolvenbach, as superior-general. Each morning at the Jesuit headquarters in Rome, while the rest of the community joins together for Mass, he is on his own in a little chapel saying the liturgy - in the Armenian rite.

It was in Beirut that Father Kolvenbach got to know the Armenian community and was ordained as a priest in the Catholic Armenian rite in 1961.
Thanks, Michael, for your clarification.

So, when he was ordained in 1961, he was simultaneously incardinated into the Armenian Catholic Church.

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Originally posted by ebed melech:
[QB] In a previous thread that was closed, Apotheoun stated the following:

[QUOTE] That being said, it is my hope that in the coming talks between the Roman Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches this fall, that there will be at least one man among the Orthodox, and preferably more than one, who is of the caliber of St. Mark of Ephesus. Such a man (or men) will be called upon to resist, by the grace of Almighty God, the Roman claims, whether those claims are focused upon the issue of the filioque or on the idea of papal universal ordinary jurisdiction, or any other peculiar theological innovation of the West since the time of the great schism. It is essential that the Orthodox Churches not prize communion with Rome over the truth of the Orthodox faith, and so they must never compromise by accepting Roman claims in connection with papal supremacy, or by accepting any of the other theological novelties that have arisen in the West during second millennium (e.g., the filioque, created grace, the reduction of the three divine hypostaseis to relations of opposition, the notion of doctrinal development, purgatory, etc.).

Communion must be built upon the unequivocal acceptance by all men of the Orthodox faith.

God bless,
Todd
Thus far we've discussed an array of things from Todd's personal character, his status in the Church, the relative disposition of one ex-Byzantine Catholic with respect to Catholic dogma, the state of Orthodox and Catholic monasticism and whether or not the Jesuits will be Catholic in the 21st century under eastern Catholic leadership. I am very sorry if I missed anyone.

We have not yet answered the question of what it is when a self-defined Catholic in union with the papal office stands up publicly and calls for an arch-dissenter in the Orthodox tradition of the Bishop of Ephesus, to come and overturn all future planned bi-lateral efforts to come to some agreement on the meaning and acceptablilty of universal and ordinary jurisdiction for and infallibility inherent in the person in the papal office, or the Petrine Ministry, if you'd rather.

I see that as anti-papal-Catholic rhetoric in the same language as I am well accustomed to hearing it among some of the most vocal Internet Orthodox clergy and faithful. Darn toot'n.

Todd is surely a good man and a good son, but his rhetoric is clearly that of an arch dissenter. As far as I am concerned, to call it otherwise is to do a disservice to Todd's integrity as a believer and as a university student.

Eli

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Why is that suggestion labeled "rhetoric" - it seems to me, that having a anti-Papal power theologian enter "negotiations" with ultra-montane theologians would produce one of two results - complete disagreement and havoc OR some kind of mutual understanding.

Now, I understand that there aren't many ultra-montanes left in the Latin Church, but even if the "moderates" were to find some agreement with a vehement anti-Papalist - I would call that major progress.

However I think that whoever this anti-Papalist is, if he agrees to anything he will be labeled a Papist and Romish and unable to return back home - at least with the traditionalist faction of the anti-Papalists. The hope, I think, is that the majority will accept his understanding.

But then again, maybe I'm completely off.

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Everyone,

Originally the question that was posed on this thread was directed towards one poster, Apotheoun (Todd) regarding some statements made on another thread. It seems everyone has answered for him or has made assumptions as to his responses, including his motivations and character.

I would strongly suggest that he answer the questions for himself instead of others making assumptions to his reply. If anymore assumptions are going to be made on his behalf, then the point of this thread is of no use, and should be closed. Sometimes for whatever reasons, posters are offline for periods of time. This is probably the case in regards to Apotheoun since he does not post on a regular basis.

If replies are going to be made in this thread it should be your reply only and not making assumptions as to others and their opinions. Wild speculation regarding another poster will not be tolerated, especially when it comes to their character and status in the Church.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
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Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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Gordo,

First I'd like to say that Todd's statement struck me as slightly peculiar, too, given that he is in full communion with the pope.

Nevertheless I must also say that I found the following a bit disturbing:

Quote
Originally posted by ebed melech:
Are we to say that acceptance of such a position [the Athonite passage] is necessary to be Orthodox? Unless he says otherwise, Todd appears to assert this.

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