www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Peter, the Pope, and Matthew 16

There has been a question on the exegesis of Matthew 16 regarding who/what is the "rock" Jesus is referring to.

I have these questions:
1. What do the Church Fathers understanding on this? Do they have a consensus? There are Church Fathers like Jerome who has a different interpretation while Augustine was more liberal in his interpretation (he refers to the rock as: Peter himself, Peter's profession of faith, and Jesus Christ).

2. Is the rock is referred to Peter's profession of faith, how can Peter's faith be separated for the personhood of Peter?

3. What is the implication of Isaiah 22 to Matthew 16 since the author of Matthew is quoting the Septuagint version of Isaiah?

4. If St. Peter did indeed transmit his office, or a portion of it (a disputed question as we have seen), in what way is it that the bishop of Rome uniquely receives it, when St. Peter certainly ordained other bishops (as in Antioch, at least)? The statement has been made here that this is so because Rome is where St. Peter died. But, why is this the only or legitimate criterion? Why should where someone dies make any difference? Why shouldn't St. Peter's first
ordination be more important, or his fifteenth? For that matter, what does someone's death have to do with the transmission of grace in ordination?

5. If St. Peter did indeed leave some special charism for the bishop of Rome (again, open to question), in what method then is it passed along? In the whole history of the church, ordination and 'transmission of grace' have been by _cheirotonia_, 'laying on of hands', and physical means. How was St. Peter's special gift passed along from pope to pope, when each pope was *not* ordained by his predecessor, but by the bishop of Ostia (customarily), or other bishops? How did St. Peter's martyrdom transmit his charism to St. Linus? If, as some sources have it, St. Linus was martyred, how did St. Anacletus, his successor, receive St. Peter's charism? How also is this Petrine charism
passed along, when there are gaps between deaths of bishops of Rome and their successors,
of months, and even years (3.5 years in the early 300s A.D., from the death of Pope Marcellinus to the accession of Pope Marcellus I)?

"Rock" has been given several interpretations:

1. Jesus Christ
2. Peter's person/office
3. Peter's confession of faith
4. Confession of faith
5. The Apostles

Some traditions have relied only on one interpretation while ignoring the others. The Latin West has focused considerably on the person of Peter and his office for obvious reasons: to support the papacy. The East, in some cases, has retaliated by focusing only on another single interpretation, namely confession of faith in Jesus Christ. Both are correct, but both are incomplete. Focusing on one interpretation while ignoring the others often results in polemics. Nobody wins. This is because as you have noted above some Church Fathers use several interpretations of "rock" in their writings.

I notice a tendency to 'ontologize' in the Latin West. Meaning is usually found in searching for a particular person. Whether it be the Pope of Rome or the Mother of God, the Holy Spirity often gets ignored. In fact, some old Latin hymns once addressed to the Holy Spirit were later changed to address the Pope! When this happens it is only reasonable that any definition of "rock" will carry a papal tone to it.

Peter's person is not mentioned in our Pentecostarion. Usually, his faith or our faith is mentioned.

God bless!
Cantor Joe Thur

Dear elexie,

The fact is that Rome was the only Apostolic See in the West founded by Peter and Paul, while these Apostles founded quite a few Churches in the East, including the churches of many villages!

That is what the notion of primacy of jurisdiction by Rome understood as having come from Peter was unintelligible in the East.

To say that Rome was first because Peter founded it and he was the first Apostle . . . the East basically said, "So what?"

The fact is that Rome bore the relics of Sts Peter and Paul - as Meyendorff says, this fact did carry weight in the East.

Rome was the capital of the ancient Roman Empire. It was where Peter and Paul came to their final end and where their relics were preserved as a place of pilgrimage. The Church itself also canonized Rome as the "First among Equals" during Ecumenical Councils and also allowed for appeal to the Pope of Rome.

Roman Catholic theologians examining the basis for the later papal claims to universal jurisdiction etc. have tended to say that those claims have been largely exaggerated in the Middle Ages especially.

The Church of Christ as a whole bears the charism of "indefectability" since it bears the Spirit of Christ.

The Pope expresses that Spirit when he speaks to articulate the meaning of Scripture and Tradition.

Alex

http://www.thegenesisletters.com/Letters/YouArePetros.htm

Cheers.
-ray

Good posts brethern. However we must keep in mind good solid exegetical practices.
When we look at the greek text in Matthew 16:18 we have to keep in mind the aramaic thought of Jesus. Petra - petros is absent in this thought, here it is Kephas a solid massive bedrock the kind on which Jesus says the wise man build his house. And Kephas is that foundation and it is shared with the other Apostles (the Chruch being built upon the Apostles with Christ Jesus himself as the corner stone.
When one dilligently searches the Fathers it is true that there are several inferances to the meaning of "Rock" but it is also clear that Peter is the "rock" on which Christ will build his Church.
Even most protestants are coming to that conslusion as to the meaning of the text.
And it is also clear from the text of the NT that Peter has a primacy and is the spokesman for the Apostles.
Was this primacy transferred? That is the point in question!

May the Divine, Immortal and Life giving Spirit enlighten us.

Stephanos I

It is interesting to note that St Cyprian indentifies Peter as the Rock on which Christ will build his Church an he attest to the reason why this is so. One word namely "Unity"
The Church is founded upon the chair of Peter to protect it from error and disunity.

I quote from "De Ecclesiae catholica unitate:
"The Lord says to Peter; 'I say to you, He (that is Christ) that you are Peter, an upon this rock I will build my Church .....(Mt 16:18)
And again he says to him after his resurrection 'Feed my Sheep' On him (Peter) he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep; and although He assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair, and He established by His own authority a source and an intinsic reason for that unity. Inded, the others were that also which Peter was; but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, akk are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the Apostles in single minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith?

If he desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?


If this unity of the Church is to continue, if it is to be upheld and fall not then it stands to reason that the Lord Jesus Christ intended for his ministry of coryphaeus would also contine, that his cathedra would endure to the end of time.
"Behold I am with you until the end of the ages."

In the Arabic Canons of the Council of Nicea ( although I admit they were not a part of those accepted at Nicea) they do show the Eastern mindset of the Position of the Apostolic See of Rome.

Canon XXXIX
"just as he who holds the seat of Rome, is the head and prince of all patriarchs; inasmuch as he is forst, as was Peter, to whom power is given over all Christian princes, and over all their peoples, as he who is the Vicar of Christ our Lord over all peoples and over the whole Christian Church."

It was only after the ursuping of the Patriarchate of Constantinople by Photius, and his desire for the aggrandizment of his possition did the East begin to drift further and further away from the unity of the Apostolic See of Rome.

Stephanos I

My question on this all is what the justification for universal, immediate jurisdiction is. Everytime I read a Latin author on the Papacy, this is one thing that never gets fully explained. The logic usually goes Primacy, ergo full and immediate jurisdiction. I have yet to find this in Scripture.
Are there any Latins who defend it on any grounds other than (relatively) modern history?

"I love you, O LORD, my strength.
The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer;
my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge." (Psalm 18:1-2a NIV)

jbosl
It isnt relative modern history at all but the teaching of the Church from the earliest times (although) I know a lot will refute that.
When I have a little more time I will post some things on jurisdiction that I have found in the Fathers.
Shalom
Stephanos I
PS The above post from the arabic canons of Nicea 325 is an example of "universal jurisdiction". There are more.

I decided to do a little survey of those places in Scripture where "rock" is used symbolically, namely in referring to a person or God. Found below is my survey based on the NIV:

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Genesis 49
23 With bitterness archers attacked him; they shot at him with hostility. 24 But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel, 25 because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty, who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb.

Deuteronomy 32
3 I will proclaim the name of the LORD . Oh, praise the greatness of our God! 4 He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong,
upright and just is he.

15 Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior.

18 You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.

29 If only they were wise and would understand this and discern what their end will be!
30 How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up? 31 For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede.

36 The LORD will judge his people and have compassion on his servants when he sees their strength is gone and no one is left, slave or free. 37 He will say: "Now where are their gods, the rock they took refuge in, �

1 Samuel 2
Hannah's Prayer (compare with Mary's Canticle in Luke 1:46ff and David's Song of Praise in 2 Sam 22:1ff)
1 Then Hannah prayed and said: "My heart rejoices in the LORD ; in the LORD my horn is lifted high. My mouth boasts over my enemies, for I delight in your deliverance.
2 "There is no one holy like the LORD ; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.

2 Samuel 22
David's Song of Praise
1 David sang to the LORD the words of this song when the LORD delivered him from the hand of all his enemies and from the hand of Saul. 2 He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; 3 my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior from violent men you save me.

31 "As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him. 32 For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? 33 It is God who arms me with strength and makes my way perfect.

46 They all lose heart; they come trembling from their strongholds. 47 "The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior! 48 He is the God who avenges me, who puts the nations under me,

2 Samuel 23
2 "The Spirit of the LORD spoke through me; his word was on my tongue. 3 The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: 'When one rules over men in righteousness,
when he rules in the fear of God, 4 he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.'

Psalm 18
1 I love you, O LORD, my strength. 2 The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. 3 I call to the LORD, who is worthy of praise, and I am saved from my enemies.

30 As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him. 31 For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? 32 It is God who arms me with strength and makes my way perfect.

45 They all lose heart; they come trembling from their strongholds. 46 The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior! 47 He is the God who avenges me, who subdues nations under me,

Psalm 19
13 Keep your servant also from willful sins; may they not rule over me. Then will I be blameless, innocent of great transgression. 14 May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O Lord, my Rock and my Redeemer.

Psalm 28
1 To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent,
I will be like those who have gone down to the pit. 2 Hear my cry for mercy s I call to you for help, as I lift up my hands toward your Most Holy Place.

Psalm 31
1 In you, O LORD , I have taken refuge; let me never be put to shame; deliver me in your righteousness. 2 Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge,
a strong fortress to save me. 3 Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me.

Psalm 42
9 I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning,
oppressed by the enemy?" 10 My bones suffer mortal agony as my foes taunt me, saying to me all day long, "Where is your God?"

Psalm 61
1 Hear my cry, O God; listen to my prayer. 2 From the ends of the earth I call to you, I call as my heart grows faint; lead me to the rock that is higher than I. 3 For you have been my refuge, a strong tower against the foe.

Psalm 62
1 My soul finds rest in God alone; my salvation comes from him. 2 He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken. 3 How long will you assault a man? Would all of you throw him down this leaning wall, this tottering fence?

5 Find rest, O my soul, in God alone; my hope comes from him. 6 He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken. 7 My salvation and my honor depend on God; he is my mighty rock, my refuge.

Psalm 71
2 Rescue me and deliver me in your righteousness; turn your ear to me and save me.
3 Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress. 4 Deliver me, O my God, from the hand of the wicked, from the grasp of evil and cruel men.

Psalm 78
34 Whenever God slew them, they would seek him; they eagerly turned to him again.
35 They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer.
36 But then they would flatter him with their mouths, lying to him with their tongues;

Psalm 89
25 I will set his hand over the sea, his right hand over the rivers. 26 He will call out to me, 'You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.' 27 I will also appoint him my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth.

Psalm 92
14 They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green, 15 proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him."

Psalm 94
21 They band together against the righteous and condemn the innocent to death. 22 But the LORD has become my fortress, and my God the rock in whom I take refuge. 23 He will repay them for their sins and destroy them for their wickedness; the LORD our God will destroy them.

Psalm 95
1 Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD ; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.
2 Let us come before him with thanksgiving and extol him with music and song.

Psalm 144
1 Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
2 He is my loving God and my fortress, my stronghold and my deliverer, my shield, in whom I take refuge, who subdues peoples under me.

Isaiah 17
10 You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress. Therefore, though you set out the finest plants and plant imported vines,

Isaiah 26
3 You will keep in perfect peace him whose mind is steadfast, because he trusts in you.
4 Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD , the LORD , is the Rock eternal. 5 He humbles those who dwell on high, he lays the lofty city low; he levels it to the ground
and casts it down to the dust.

Isaiah 30
29 And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice
as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD , to the Rock of Israel.

Isaiah 44
7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and lay out before me
what has happened since I established my ancient people, and what is yet to come -
yes, let him foretell what will come. 8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one."

Daniel 2
33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay. 34 While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were broken to pieces at the same time and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.

44 "In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands-a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.

Habakkuk 1
Habakkuk's Second Complaint
12 O LORD , are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD , you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

Zechariah 12
2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness," declares the LORD . "I will keep a watchful eye over the house of Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations.

Matthew 7
The Wise and Foolish Builders
24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.

Matthew 16
17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that YOU ARE PETER, AND ON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Luke 6
47I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice. 48He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.

1 Corinthians 10
3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

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How should this aid in our interpretation of "rock" in Matthew? Do we ignore the Hebrew Scriptures altogether?

Peter and the 'Rock' -

http://www.geocities.com/trvalentine/orthodox/rock.html

OrthoMan

Thank you for comparing the MT and the LXX. It is an important observation that "rock" in the MT = "God" in the LXX.

My quotes above were from the NIV.

Joe

Joe and Bob (Orthoman):

I have a problem with your method. Using OT quotes that speak of God as a "rock" to explain away Christ's plain words in the NEW Testament--that's like using OT quotes that speak of "bread" to explain away John 6.

Grammatically speaking, there is no possible way that "epi *taut�n* t�n petr�n" could refer to something other than to the "Rock" JUST MENTIONED--i.e. to Kephas, Peter. "Thou art Rock, and upon this rock I will build my Church"--the words are plain. Sensus patet. And I don't buy the nonsense Protestant argument for one minute, about the diference between "petros" and "petra", since Matthew would of course have to put a masculine ending there for Peter.


God Bless.

LatinTrad

Though "rock" typically refers to "God" in the Old Testament, in the Byzantine Pentecostarion "rock" always refers to "faith/confession" of "Peter/believers."

Dear Orthoman,

You "rock," Big Guy!

Alex