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I was at the pool of of my condominium today and noticed that the man who cares for the pool had a 3 bar Cross hanging from his rear view mirror of his truck. I knew that he was some sort of fundamentalist evangelical Christian in the past, so I asked him if he had become Orthodox. We got into a discussion and his answer was very interesting.

His Assembly of God congregation here had recently sent missionaries to a city in Russia to establish a "church" there. He told me that the church was flourishing and had already over 500 members since the beginning of the year. His congregation sends financial assistance as well as Bibles, tracts, tapes, etc. for help in spreading Christianity. When I asked about the Cross, he said that it was not an Orthodox Cross but a "Russian Cross," used on any kind of church building, including the one that they (the new AOG congregation) had built and was using. The Crosses were sent from the congregation in Russia to his as a "thank you" gift for all the help they were providing.

I find it quite interesting that an Assembly of God church in Russia uses three bar Crosses on their church. And the MP is worried about Catholics?

John.

Although I admit that MP of Russia goes too far to be so uncharitable to the Catholic Church (east and west).

But this kind of thing that this "assembly of God" Church is doing with these 3 bar crosses just makes me so sick to the stomach.

I really hate it when the protestants "dress up" their churches with Orthodox things or Catholic things (like in South America as well).

It's like they're the wolves dressing up in sheep's clothing. Herectics preaching in the "Orthodox-look-a-like" or "Catholic-look-a-like" churches.

FAITHFUL! BEWARE! Let's FIGHT against that kind of trend. It has to be stopped! It's something that Rome has been telling and WARNING Russian MP about for many years but because of MP's PRIDE, he has failed to protect the Orthodox faithful because he's too darn busy worrying about Catholics while the heretic Protestants are secretly and quietly sweeping through the country.

WAKE UP! Let's pray that MP would resolve to be friends with Rome, then the Russian Orthodox Church would be in much better shape that way.

Oh man, I'm about ready to hurl in my wastebasket upon hearing this horrid story!

What can we do??? WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT???

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

I agree that the focus of the MP is misplaced. The Apostolic churches, Orthodox and Catholic, should end their squabbling as soon as possible to present a united and credible front to meet the challenges of these times.

These "shape-shifting" religious groups are a real danger. Just as the modern world has slipped into this most disbelieving phase these groups come in and spread their cracked theology to the spiritually hungry.

The father of lies never sleeps!

The introduction to the 1898 English translation of St. Peter Moghila's Orthodox Catechism (one of the most widely distributed Orthodox catechisms until later into the 20th century) speaks to the "common fight of the Greek and Latin Churches against the inroads of Protestantism". How true it is and shows how all churches of true Apostolic Succession should band together.

Although this sounds nice and lofty, I doubt it will cure Alexei II's nor the MP in general's attitude towards the Catholics.

Dear SPDundas

Thank you for your concern for the Orthodox Church but I think it is neither asked for nor welcomed.

I don't think the MP would welcome either heretical Catholics or heretical Protestants to Russia. Nevertheless, the Patriarchate has been more ecumenical towards that Protolic churches otuside of Russia and has even sent them gifts of three bar crosses.

The 3 bar cross does not imply anything offensive to Protestantism nor unique to Orthodoxy. In fact it is the Catholics who insist on the 3-D crucifix.

Axios

So now you speak for all of Orthodoxy?

I don't think so.

Amin David! Amin!

David, I think he is only speaking for "canonical" churches.


This is a bit ironic when discussing a Patriarch who has never renounced communism nor the atheistic communist regime which brought him to power and supported him.

More than you do, Pookie!!!

Luv,

Axios

But seriously.

Within Orthodoxy we have a school that sees the non-Orthodox as heretical (that would include Catholics and Protestants) and we have a school which seeks to build ecumenism and harmony among Christians as best we can given real and important differences. One of the forums we strive for this in the World Council of Churches.
These two schools are not mutually exclusive.

I think it is at best unseemly and poor form and at worst unchristian for one group of Christians from whom we Orthodox are seperated from to concurrently ask for ecumenism towards them and bigotry and intolerance towards other Christians.

Personally, I think both of the schools of Orthodox thought I mentioned deserve more respect than such bigotry.

I know there are Catholics who are quick to laud their learnedness on the Orthodox Church to push themselves forward as spokepersons for Orthodoxy. Nevertheless, it is exactly one of the problems we face in ecumenism.

Axios

Please forgive me as I venture forth to put in my two cents worth. (Maybe due to inflation it's not even worth a half cent.) But instead of just complaining about how the Protestant Evangelicals are trying to convert Russia, we should ask ourselves a question i.e.: What have we been doing to help the Russian Orthodox Church to evangelize her own people? Eventhough one might disagree with the Evangelical theology, one has to acknowledge that they are willing to not spare any expense in trying to make it happen. When was the last time a group of American Orthodox or Eastern Catholic gone over, not as tourists but as a group of people willing to do what is needed to be done. (I read time and again how some of the Evangelical groups go over to teach English)
Are we as generious with our time and money in the spreading of the Gospel (which is the Good News) as they are. Besides questioning them, we should also be examining ourselves as to the fact if we could be doing more. (That includes me)
I am sorry I hope that I have not offended anyone here, if I did I beg your pardon.

theodore, you are a wise man and a good person.

Axios

I may remind the folks here that Axios's church isn't a true Orthodox. As it is a GAY Orthodox.

Hmmmm wonder how he became a "spokes person" of true Orthodoxy? How ironic.

That was somewhat unnecessary.

I think we all know Axios' orientation.

OK - Love the sinner - hate the sin.

Anhelyna,
You know that I agree with you whole heartedly on this but....

(bet you knew the but was coming) :p

Sometimes people think that "Love the sinner, hate the sin." Means that we must over look the sin. That it is wrong to point out the sin to the sinner and call it what it is.

I do not agree with this. I think it is the essence of love to point at the sin and call it sin, especially to the sinner.

Just my two cents (nickle for you Canadians)

David

Yup - agreed - but I don't think you have to use a sledgehammer !

Constant gentle dripping wears things away in a much kinder fashion than a sudden total deluge - which can scatter it every which way and can destroy more than was intended.

Quoting my SD again - " The Lord has always been very gentle with me "

Anhelyna