www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Recent view from the RC press

Dragani,

I don't think that will happen. I don't recall any of our bishops sitting down with our people to determine one's responsibilities. We are Catholic, remember? We submit to the authorities in Rome. I am not saying this to be cocky; it is just a simple fact. We don't pray for a patriarch in our litanies; we pray for the Pope of Rome.

Joe


[This message has been edited by Joe Thur (edited 01-22-2001).]

You write:

For God's sake, there MUST be something constructive that we can do to correct this terrible injustice????????
WHERE DO WE START?

Anthony the FED UP Abused Uniate

---------------------------------------------

By reclaiming your Orthodox past where the laity also has a say in the governance of the Church. That's what keeps us Orthodox. Because even when the Bishops were weak and sold out the faith, the laity was there to set them straight. Who do you think kept the Orthodox Church alive and pure during communism when some of the Bishops and priests gave in..it was the laity! Who was it that said "The road to hell is paved with the skulls of dead Bishops." Perfect example is the council of Florence.
May I remind you in the Orthodox Church when the clergy are consecrated it's the laity which also play a part in that consecration. As the priest is being vested the Bishop turns to the people and says Axios (worthy) and the people answer Axios three times. However, if the people respond Anaxious (unworthy) the consecration cannot continue.
Take an example from the Greek Archdiocese here in America when the EP stuck them with Archbishop Spryridon and the archdiocese was in shambles. It took three years but it was THE PEOPLE that got rid of him. Two hints..1) Money talks. Start withholding the donations and the Bishop will get the message. 2) Let your disatisfaction be known to the Bishops anyway you can.
Start being and acting like that Sui Juris INDEPENDENT CHURCH who is only in communion with Rome rather that than UNDER IT'S AUTHORITY that you claim to be. Until you do, neither the Latin Rite Roman Catholics or the Orthodox Catholics will take you seriously.
We Orthodox smile every time you make the above claim because the facts show Rome still controls you and you let them.

Lance,

Thank you that very detailed and scholarly explaination of current practice. Like everything in life, it might be open to improvement, but clearly the current practice is an orthodox one, maybe just not the only orthodox one.

Kurt

Anthony,
Before we get totally flipped out on this, do we know if there have even been any qualified married men that have actually tried to gain acceptance into the seminary?
I would bet they aren't banging down the doors any faster than single men.

There are several married deacons in the Eparchy. Are any of those men interested? I would think that would be the best group to pull from, and I don't see much happening there yet, either.

It is easy to place blame on the heirarchy in this situation, but a change takes time and patience and prayer. I see several deacons here on this forum. Can anyone answer why they may or may not be interested in pursuing the priesthood?

maura

Christ is baptized!

Maura,

One reason perhaps that married men haven�t applied to SS. Cyril & Methodius Seminary is that the bishops aren�t recruiting them. From what Anthony says � and it jibes pretty much with what I remember about the Ruthenian Church � they�re not wanted there.

You make good points, but remember that in the Orthodox tradition there usually is a proliferation of deacons as well as minor clergy (especially readers): although these orders are called �ranks of priesthood�, Bishop Kallistos (Ware) writes in The Orthodox Church that the understanding of these orders as permanent vocations hasn�t eroded as much as it has in the Latin Church. Men who are readers, subdeacons (to name the two minor orders) and deacons aren�t �retarded� vocations to the priesthood: would-be or wannabe priests. (A perception that Roman Catholic lay brothers in religious orders suffer from, too.)

It seems that here, as in many other things, latinization may have taken its toll on Ruthenian and other Byzantine Catholic life: along with quick Liturgies for everything instead of the Church�s �hours of prayer�, mimicking the Roman cultural bias that there�s no point in going if there isn�t Communion, so it may be here: a kind of clericalism that sees priesthood as the only vocation that �counts�.

Surely some of the Ruthenian and other Byzantine Catholic married deacons may be prospective priests, but not all.

Anthony,

Your heart is in the right place: with your new Church.

Back to the original topic of this thread: no word yet whether The Catholic Standard and Times will print my letter. Then again, The New Oxford Review didn�t tell me in advance either but they ran my letter to them in this month�s issue.

Serge

<a href="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus�</a>

[This message has been edited by Rusnak (edited 01-23-2001).]

Dear All,

You provide a lot of insights about the Eastern Churches in union with their servant in Rome and the Eastern Churches which call themselves Orthodox. To most of us who are Latin Catholic, the jurisdictional lines of communion and the organization of the various Churches is a bit murky still. Thanks for clearing some of the confusion Moose and Lance especially.

From what I've learned so far, there's a lot of work ahead for all of us on the road to communion among all of the Churches. I just wanted to share the view I see for a second.

There's been a noticable lifting of the level of discussion from that I read when I first visited to the site. Maybe its the pointing out by all parties that not all stupid actions are caused by evil intent. Maybe its the frank discussion without brothers and sisters vilifying each others leaders and beliefs. Whatever it is, it makes real frank discussion more possible. I think its the Love among us.

Robert and Rusnak and others, there are Latins who believe that union now is not possible. It won't happen IMHO til we all trust each other enough to invite eachother into each others houses and know that they won't be redecorated beyond recognition.

Our brothers and sisters will, i think come to value what the other is so that when the other is attacked they will fight for one another other and what they hold dear! I hear that in Robert's postings. That's a beautiful thing to hear.

Maybe God's moving us closer faster than we think.

Thanks

Please don't let the written expression impede the message.

Joy!

Christ is among us!

Well, after two weeks and two tries at different e-mail addresses, The Catholic Standard and Times didn�t print my letter.

Serge

<A HREF="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus�</A>