www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Balamand Agreement

I can see there's not a real consensus in the Orthodox Church about the Balamand Agreement. The curious thing is that members of almost all the churches were present and when they came back to their countries, none of them has received any pressure by Patriarchs or bishops.

Here some comments:

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/balamand_txt.htm

http://www.cybercom.net/~htm/unacceptable.htm

http://www.catholicism.org/links.html

Christianity is a mess.

I don't know how you stand it.

You must be saints!


Certainly, God has a purpose for Christianity. Look at all the blood, sweat, and tears He has invested in it.


Salaam and courage,

Abdur

Christianity is a mess, huh??

I wonder what reactions I would get if I posted a similar statement about Islam in an Islamic forum...

Dear OrthodoxSWE,

I, for one, would be very afraid to!

Alex

Well, Orthodox Catholic, I guess that's one of the big differences between Christianity and Islam...

I can tell you are sincere, so thanks. It must be tough being a "liberal" Muslim with brothers in the faith such as our illustrious suicide bombers (I am still pro-Palestianian *people* though).

Christianity is not really a mess--it's just that humans are a mess, and don't want to blame themselves, so they blame a religion that they aren't even following very well!

In Christ,

anastasios

Dear Anastasios the Academician,

What you say reminded me of my meeting with an elderly gentleman on the beaches of your sunny Florida some days ago .

He started a conversation with me about how wars had gotten people turned off religion etc.

I didn't know what to say at the time, but just blurted out, "God doesn't make war, people do."

Afterwards I thought to myself, "Hey, that was not bad . . ." .

He smiled and said, "That's it." He then turned to my wife and said, "He'd make a good priest your husband!"

As I looked for a place to hide in the tall grasses, my wife simply said, "Oh, I know he would!"

Some people say the darnest things!

Alex

Yes, I agree, Islam is also a mess.


I never meant that "only" Christianity is "a mess." I was only responding according to the poster's context. Half of my family are/were Orthodox Christians--Greeks.

I am very familiar with Balkan Christianity and I am certainly far more familiar with Balkan Islam than the vast majority of American Christians.

If my approach to faith was more theological than philosophical, I would probably be a Christian. If one of my ancestors had been born--let us say--50 klicks to the east or west, I would be a Christian. Family is everything! There is nothing nefarious in my rejection of Christianity.

But we---monotheists--have to face the reality that more and more soul searchers are rejecting all orthodox religions--whether Jewish, Christian, or Islamic--and looking elsewhere for spiritual comfort and inspiration.

Sometimes Christians and Muslims forget--that together--we comprise less than 40% of the world's population.

We certainly have a challenge to face in the light of reality.

Salaam,

Abdur

[ 04-11-2002: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]

Dear Abdur,

I certainly am not offended by what you say nor how you say it.

That others are could, perhaps, and no offense intended, be attributed to your way of saying what you say.

Sometimes it is like dropping, well, a bomb . . .

God bless,

Alex

Yes, Iskander Bey, Bektashi Islam is rather--explosive--but only rhetorically, in the socratic sense.

Somewhere in Albania, there is an Islamic shrine dedicated to---Socrates! Among the Bektashi, Socrates is considered a saint.

The strong attachment of certain sects of Balkan Islam to ancient Greek mysticism explains the deep differences that exist between many Balkan Muslims and the more orthodox variety, Sunnis, for example.

Also, the strong attachment of Bektashi Islam to Greek and pre-islamic Persian philosophy and mysticism and the teachings of the Cappadocian Paulian Christian heretics explains the fraternal affinity some Muslims do share for certain elements of Christianity. It also explains the broad tolerance--almost unitarian-universalism--of those who have been raised under our star.

It also explains a fierce determination to fight for freedom of religion and independence. The Turks are very familiar with the Bektashi.

Also, I bring a very speculative perspective to this forum --I am constantly amazed by and envious of the faith of many of the posters-- and it is easy for me to forget, that what is an apodictic truth or dogma for some, is nothing more than a metaphor-- or an attempt to say something about the truth--for me and can never be considered (by me) to be "The Truth."
I am just not comfortable with fundamentalism, whether Christian or Muslim.

Yes, I definitely need to remember that. I do like to "inspire" people. , Christians and Muslims.

May Allah bless Socrates and all tongue-in-cheek rabble rousers, for they are the salt of the earth and the well-springs of creativity.

Salaam,

Abdur

[ 04-11-2002: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]

Dear Abdur,

How fascinating - Socrates!

I know that Muslims honour Nabi Iskander or Alexander the Great - and that is a devotion I have no problem with . The Ethiopians also honour him in this way, something, it is said, that is borrowed from their Muslim neighbours.

Socrates certainly was venerated among the pre-Christian Greeks for his moral stand.

And there are Orthodox Churches that do pay a form of tribute to the Greek philosohers, including Socrates by including iconographic depictions of them on church walls, but without haloes, as one can find on Roumanian rotunda churches.

So I guess the moral of the story is that we are philosophically closer than we realize.

Alex

Srebrenica and Christianity.

On the positive side, Swedes certainly are open to and tolerant of Islam.

There is a strong Sufi community in Sweden.

Only God is Great!

Abdur

[ 04-11-2002: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]

Dear OrthodoxSWE,

Certainly, we should not generalize or try to show who is "morally superior" to the other based on religious faith.

If Christians followed their religion to the letter, the whole world would be Christian by now, I am sure, including Abdur.

Am I right, Abdur?

Alex

[ 04-11-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

Dear Abdur,

I hope you don't consider my stab at some humour here an indication of even more problems within Christianity . . .

You mention that there is toleration of Islam in our friend's country.

Is this perhaps they are "Swede enough?"

Alex

Abdur,

You really ought to think about that.

"Philosophy" is a Greek word, from phile�n, "to love," and soph�a, "wisdom"

The only true wisdom is from God, so, if you really love wisdom then you ought to study God (Theology).

Does that mean you will now become Orthodox?