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The late Bishop Ivan Prashko of Australia and New Zealand told me that that Ruthenians did feel closer to the Russians. This Soviet/Russian link had not taken root then.

He was amused that Ruthenian students in Rome who rushed home and who had been pro things Russian (here read eastern rite) because they were rebuffed by the Soviets when they got there. The Soviet agenda was about telling the Ruthenians they were Ukraninans and just about to vote for reunification with their motherland. He said that when they got back to Rome they were not so outspoken as they had been previously.

I did read somewhere that the promotion of Ukrainianess was offical policy ot the Austrian Empire to counter any feelings of Pan Rus-ness in their Rus provinces.

I keep telling people here that Metropolitan Andrew was certainly not anti Russian at all and was if anything very interested in his Rus & Byzantine heritage and was above such thinking. They locked him up an Orthodox monastery with printing presses and he goes home with heaps of service books from there when he was released. Sounds like locking him up in a candy store and the nice people gave him plenty to take home with him. Must have been terrible for him!

So it is just my view that those who came from Hungary did not have anti Russian views and they did come from an area that bordered Russia as it was then. Feelings thanks to the soviets have changed since those days.

Just a few thoughts.

ICXC
NIKA

It is quite true that the Hungarian government was most anxious to keep the Rusyns in Hungary from making common cause with the Rusyns in Galicia - hence the greater encouragement to the Russophiles in Subcarpathia before World War I. However, these things are relative; the Hungarians had no great appreciation for the Tsar of Russia either. What they were really out to do was magyarize everybody in sight.

Incognitus

Since we are in this mode...my own dear dzedo and baba came from near Pittsburg, Pa after coming over early 1900's from the Rusyn homeland (near Sanok, Poland)...Lemkowie...za Karpatskiy...etc. Here they were called 'Hunkies'...of which someone has written a book about them (web search..). The "Rust" belt, is also much of the originator of the smog of the NE and Cleveland to around the Great Lakes...you know Big Industry of the late 1880's thru mid 1900's that has all but disappeared... sorry to say. We could not have won WWI and WWII without it, and today could not even find the workforce to man it properly. This would also make it the Sauerkraut... the Pirrohy...the Zabava...etc, etc BELT. Anything Rusyn, Ruthenian, Orthodox, Byzantine, ERC, etc , etc, comes from this region. There are more decendants of our ancestors who live in Ohio, Penna, NY state and NJ than live in the 'homeland'...or as Mom used to say...the 'old' country. I could go on, but I am glad that even tho I am middle aged, I have come back to my ethnic and heritage roots, and our ancient Faith. May we all have a spiritually profitable Great Lent, S Bohom, Do Pobachinnya, mik

Pyrohy - you obviously haven't been down the road from Rossburn or Seech - Ruthenia is right there in Manitoba... and the parish is Ukrainian... )
FDD

Fr Deacon
Hehe, sounds like 'round here.
Yes Mike, many Rusnacks in this part of the state. Most younger folk have left, don't go to the Orthodox/Byzcath Church and forget their roots. Needless to say, my dad's generation was in a hurry to not be Ukrainian (yes, Rusyn, but they called themselves Ukrainian (most people do around here even though they aren't "ukrainian").
So, as much as we like to brag about how much influence the old country (pa) has on Orthodoxy, Byzcath.. We must not forget it could all go extinct before our very own eyes within 10 years if we don't get people back into the churches.
I'd say so many parishes in the country are having a problem. No young people are staying, the ones that do fade away to far away lands. The population that stays isn't Orthodox, or barely goes to church. Trust me, I live it everyday of my life. The only place that has growth is the fastest growing city in my area, because many people move here for a big reason, and the parish is booming.

Here in NY there is a very active parish on Long Island that I know of. (I am OCA myself). That parish consists mostly of converts.

We Carpatho-Rusyns are not "just" Byzantine Catholics who "rejoined" the Orthodox Church. That would be like me saying...oh you Byzantine Catholics are just Orthodox Christians who abandoned Orthodoxy to join the Catholic Church.

I am not saying that your statement does not contain some truth (the Orthodox Saint Alexis Toth was a Carpatho-Rusyn Byzantine Catholic who converted to Orthodoxy), but it is not the whole story. The Carpathian region is quite diverse. My Carpatho-Rusyn great-grandparents for example, come from a people who are and have always been Orthodox.

Warm regards,
Alexis

http://www.acrod.org/

This is the internet site for The American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Church.

ICXC
NIKA

During my "Church Search" for the past 4+ months I have worked alot with ACROD (Including Metropolitan Nicholas himself). The number of members in ACROD are comparable to the entire Metropolia of Pittsburgh (approximately 110k to the entire metropolia which I believe is approximately 120k)They are just like the Byzantine Catholic Church (Ruthenian Jurisdiction)in america...however, they appear to be more pastoral since each parish "runs itself" as such, some are on the "Old" Julian Calendar and others are on the modified calendar (Gregorian with Orthodox Pascha) I find it amazing that in my area (Fairfield County CT) where the Ruthenian Catholic Church is saying in essence this is not a place for us...there is nothing here I find three ACROD parishes in the Bridgeport/Stratford area (all have ties directly with bishop Chornack) that appear to be thriving...the smallest of the three has aproximately 30 people each Sunday and I believe 10 in their religious education program. That's small but with alot of future potential...I also know that the parish in Danbury has alot if not the majority of people as non-rusyn...they have an outreach to the hispanic community (including a hispanic deacon) The 4 ACROD parishes, at least in CT, seem to be thriving and reaching out to grow beyond the rusyn base...Do they have their problems, yes, they are us...but from what I can see, so far in my limited exposure, they appear to at least act like a Church and not a heavy handed burocracy...

The three Carpatho-Russian Orthodox parishes in the Bridgeport-Stratford area are all originally one parish - and the divisions were not brought about for geographical reasons.

Incognitus

Correct you are incognetus!!!

It's interesting that the three "break off" parishes are vibrant and thriving while the Byzantine Catholic Churches in the area are dead or dying. Even St. John's in Trumbull which is the parish from which these three parishes had their roots is on the verge of collapse as can be seen in another thread. It just serves as another reminder that we need to leave everything in God's hands and He will guide us where we need to go.

PAVLOOSH, I think that the church became known as Carpatho-Russian instead of Rusyn for many reasons. There were many names going around at the time for their ethnic groups, and still there is no real official name.

The main reason I believe is that in the late 19th century they were under the ideas of Panslavism. They considered that they, the "Great Russians," the Little Russians (Ukrainians), Belarusians, and maybe other small groups belonged to a larger "Russia" with roots going back to ancient "Rus." The capitol was in Kiev in the 11th century and had many principalities, such as Novgorod and I guess Galicia. So they were picking out their name from this idea as "Carpatho-Russian."

In line with this idea, the ancient word "Rus" is written in Russian as "PYCb" pronounced Rus' . Rusyns called themselves in their own language "Russ'ki" or "PYCCbKI" in line with this term. Russki/PYCCKNN" (backwards NN) is the Russian word for Russian. Hence an English translation should be something like "Russyian." The word "Rusyn" puts the accent on the second syllable, whereas as far as I know, words in their language are actually accented on the first syllable.

Another reason is that they were pro-Russian since they were exploited by the Poles and for whatever reason developed a sense of their independence from the Ukrainian nationality. And Russia did not border the Lemkos, so perhaps allying with Russia would make it the least likely to absorb them? Their language is between Slovak and Ukrainian although in the latter as a basic language group. Interestingly, they share a y (Cyrrillic letter "bi") sound with Russian that Ukrainian does not have.

Another obvious reason is that they had become Orthodox, like Russia.

So, BERGSCHLAWINER, I think it is fine considering the beliefs of the immigrants themselves at that time.
St. Maxim Sandovich's final words were:
�Long live the Russian people!��Long live the Holy Orthodox Faith!��Long live Slavdom!�
www.lemko.org/religion/maxim [lemko.org]

RILIAN writes:
"I have also heard some ACROD parishes have stopped using Prostopijne regularly and have adopted choirs." What is the difference between Prostopiyne and choir chanting? Isn't Prostopiyne just a style of chanting?

I read that 25% of all OCA churches are of Carpatho-Russian background. This is true for mine in Eastern PA. The choir director is talented and uses different kinds of chants. I would imagine that there would be more than 25%, but then you have to take into account the Bulgarian diocese, Russians in Alaska and California, Ukrainians, and maybe some other groups.

HESYCHOIS, I have seen kneelers in many OCA churches- including my own!

THYMIATO, that burnt- orange color you are noticing is because of the rust.

Does anyone know how I can get my password to something more normal than the automatically assigned MX81006? (not my actual password)

Pyrohy, you made an interesting comment about people saying they are Ukrainian when in fact they are Rusyn. This has happened very strongly in the lower Anthracite Area where I live and probably not only here. Churches, formerly known as Greek Catholic or Byzantine Catholic are now being termed "Ukrainian Catholic." I don't know if it is part of Latinization/Westernization, but they have also been doing away with the Church Slavonic in the services and booklets and replacing it with Ukrainian proper. For example, the church in Shamokin, labeled "Uzhgorod" on its cornerstone is now being termed "Ukrainian Catholic" and has a tablet in front dedicated to "the fighters for Ukrainian independence." The last "fighters for Ukrainian independence" were on the side of the Nazis in WWII and participated in the Holocaust. Does anyone else see a problem with this?
To show you how some Rusyns feel, a Lemko researcher told me that at one of these festivals which are more and more designated as "Ukrainian," a Rusyn got up at a table and loudly sang the Rusyn national anthem, "A Rusyn was I, am and will be."

OK, I fixed the password problem.

Thank you "rakovsky", you've taught me a few things I did not know about the Carpatho Russian title.

However, I am still a bit puzzled. A few years ago my wife and I [Ukrainian Catholics] attended a delighful testimonial for an outstanding Carpatho Russian Orthodox priest and his remarkable wife. The banquet began with an Invocation and the singing of The Star-Spangled Banner followed by the Rusyn National Anthem [not exactly a Russian song]. Further, Metropolitan's remarks were in English and in Ukrainian.

What do you think?

From my own experience growing up in the Anthracite region, and now living in Pittsburgh, I've seen a lot of ACROD. I went to Camp Nazareth for a wedding -- the first wedding there -- and the man was soon after ordained a priest. Most of the Orthodox I've known have been Carpatho-Russian.

Many of my ultra-catholic friends, who aren't currently RC priests, have either converted or are now converting to Orthodoxy, and joining ACROD at that. I get the impression that they're growing in terms of vocations at any rate. Doing better than the Ruthenian Catholics, anyway. If I ever cross over to Orthodoxy, it will be to ACROD myself.

Linguistic note: Carpatho-Russian usually stresses the first syllable of most words (which can wreak havoc with the meaning to other speakers of Ukrainian) - they seem to have picked up this habit from Hungarian, which also stresses the first syllable of most words. Since I don't speak any Hungarian, I have no opinion as to how this affects the meaning of words in that language.

Incognitus