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St-Michael's Ukrainian Catholic Parish Church in Montreal was founded by Metropolitan Andryj Sheptystkyj when he visited the city in the earlier part of the 20th century. The original corner stone which is still in place reads 'St-Michael's Ruthenian Greco-Catholic Church' which over time became 'St-Michael's Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church', and now is know as 'Paroisse Greco-Catholique Ukrainienne de St-Michel'- See the link.

http://www.ukemonde.com/stmich.htm

People passing by can't figure out if it is Greek, French, or Ruthenian Church.

I.F.

Well, I actually attended the ACROD parish closest to us last night for presanctified. (our parish unfortunately couldn't have services on Great and Holy Monday and Tuesday due to our space being unavailable). I was kind of surprised they had presanctified instead of Bridegroom Matins.

The parish definitely had a very different look and feel to it. The English translation they use for the prayers is also very different and that was something of an adjustment.

I enjoyed my visit very much though. I felt bad because I hadn't called ahead and had to explain who I was. The priest and the parishioners I talked to all were all very welcoming though. Glad I visited.

Andrew

When "our people" began arriving in North America there was no distinction between Russyn and Ukranian. We were all "Ruthenian". The divide came later when those of Ukrainian heritage wanted to utilize Ukrainian culture and language in the liturgy...those who were Rusyn or Hungarian (God Forbid wanted to utilize "Rusyn" or Hungarian customs...it was easiest to divide the "Rusyns" and "Ukranians" into two seperate jurisdictions (Divide and Conquer )...Rusyns hold pretty strongly that they are not Ukranian just as Hungarians hold pretty strongly they are not Rusyn. Personally, however you look at it, the boarders changed so often we all (or at least I would think most of us) have mixed blood in us. Now we are american (or Candadian) so that now, at least in my humble opinion, shouldn't matter in 21st century North America...

1. Not having Bridegroom Matins should not be a surprise. Most Ruthenian parishes do not have them either. I know in this area, one parish of three (ACROD) had bridegroom Matins (Sunday night for Holy Monday, Tues and Wed. at 9 AM) I believe tonight for Holy Wednesday they are having a deanery unction service at the Large St. John's on Mill Hill Avenue. My understanding is all three parishes had Presanctified Liturgy on Monday and Tuesday evening.

2. Translations and musical adjustments are different and are difficult to get used to. I have been attending ACROD for several months straight and I still find myself tripping over myself with words and melodys. It's close enough to get into the mode of just letting yourself go, then you realize you just threw everyone off. At least the parish I joined doesn't seem to mind much (at least at this point)...several of them are trying to get me to be their cantor...At least at this point, I can't lead their version of plain chant Now that I am able to receive with ACROD (Received into the Orthodox Church on Lazurus Saturday) I finally attended one of their presanctified liturgies this week. It was again close enough to throw you off but not quite something to take and run with. The different translations of the psalms are definitely something to get used to.

Many Years!

[Linked Image]

Brother Michael,
That is a stately gentleman on your icon. Job, congratulations, I thought last Sat. felt extra special, now I know why!!
Some of the parishes around here were brought into Orthodoxy via St. Alexis' movement.
This area is rich with Eastern Christian history.

Job writes:
When "our people" began arriving in North America there was no distinction between Russyn and Ukranian. We were all "Ruthenian". The divide came later when those of Ukrainian heritage wanted to utilize Ukrainian culture and language in the liturgy...those who were Rusyn or Hungarian (God Forbid [Wink] wanted to utilize "Rusyn" or Hungarian customs...it was easiest to divide the "Rusyns" and "Ukranians" into two seperate jurisdictions (Divide and Conquer [Big Grin] )

You are right, Job. The Ukrainian Catholic church today looks at it as Ukrainians versus "Magyrarophiles" (who as you said were Rusyns), even though many of the parishioners were Rusyn, the pro-Ukrainians claimed they were pro-Hungarian:

...the Transcarpathians favored the Magyars and deemed themselves as such [WHAT??]. There were nevertheless several clear thinking clergy but they were too few to take a stand against Muscophilism, against the increased activities of the Russian Orthodox mission, and against Magyarophilism [tongue-twister] which was supported by the Hungarian government. The anti-Ukrainianism of the Greek Catholic Magyarophile priests was clearly evident...

Relations in this organization between the priests from Galicia and those Magyarophiles from Transcarpathia was marked by disagreements from the very outset. Father nestor Dmitriw wrote that their clerical absolutionism and Magyarism alienated the Galician priests... This led to the establishment of the Ruthenian (now Ukrainian) National Association in Shamokin on February 22, 1894.
ORIGINS OF THE UKRAINIAN CHURCH IN AMERICA
http://members.tripod.com/~stcyrils/origin/
* * *

Ironic then that a "Ukrainian" National Association should be set up in Shamokin, where the local church has "Uzhorod" written on its cornerstone! Later, more Ruthenians broke away from the UNA and formed the Ukrainian Fraternal Association in Scranton. Today, the UNA is based in New Jersey and supports the Ukrainian pro-Nazi "freedom fighters" in WWII. But that is a story for another time.

Dear rakovsky,

I would be most grateful if you could elaborate on this statement. Last I checked WW2 is over - who is the UNA supporting?!? If you are referring to 'banderites' as 'pro-Nazi' then 1) please re-read some history books 2) continue this discussion, if you wish, in Town Hall.

Now back to the original topic of this thread . . .

Ребята, давайте жить дружно.

Job

We've gone to liturgy at the ACROD church near us a couple of weeks in a row and one thing that is definitely different is the overall flow of the liturgy. What I'm used to, and this just may be my experience, is the liturgy will sort of be broken up a little. The choir will sometimes take pauses for instance or some prayers instead of being sung by the choir will be just recited (whith pauses before and after).

In my experience so far in the ACROD parish is nearly evertything is chanted and there are very few pauses.

Andrew

As a follow up to my post back in April...after a few more months with ACROD it is now easier to use their music than what I had used for 30 years prior...It's a great reminder that it's all a matter of perspective and what you become used to...The "new music" that is being proposed by the Metropolia of Pittsburg and that you are able to find on the Metropolitan Cantor's website...is much closer to what is currently utilized in ACROD...(I applaud it!!!) It simply serves as a reminder to me that if you let go, accept change, and leave it in God's hands you will realize that's all it is...change, in whatever form is never easy, and with time all wounds are healed to the point where you forget they existed in the first place...

The July 2006 issue of "one" (cnewa) has a great profile of "The American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church." (The author is the executive editor of the magazine and a Pittsburgh native.

Dear Rakovsky,

Your post's negative political content has nothing to do with the thread in question and has offended other posters.

I thank them for the restraint they have shown in not engaging the offensive comment.

So, let's stick to the topic at hand.

Sincerely,
Alice, Moderator

What is is Carpatho-Russian ,where are Carpathy and where is Russia?? ,
must be Carpatho- ruthenian

I have the same question whenever I see or hear
"Carpatho Russian" mentioned. Is there such a region of Europe known as Carpatho Russia?

Isn't "Rusyn" or "Uhorsky" more accurate?