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I heard that when Pope John Paul I was being elected that the church came close to electing the Armenian Patriarch as the Bishop of Rome. Is this true? What would the ramifications of this been? He would stay Eastern wouldn't he. But wouldn't he also be the Latin Patriarch? What liturgy would he celebrate? I think it would be very good for the church to maybe have an Eastern rite Pope elected. Maybe a lot of the ignorance would be taken away. Maybe a more balanced church with more balanced terminology in its theology will do good for Christian unity? What does everyone think!

Oh, by the way, I am new!

I believe this almost occurred when Pope John XXIII was elected and not Pope John Paul I (RIP). I have no idea what the Armenian prelate would have done with regards to rite. Most likely, he would have become Roman Rite since he would have been Bishop and Patriarch of Rome from then on. FYI, Pope Paul VI was Ambrosian, not Roman, if I am not mistaken; but I don't have this info on hand.

Elias

I was taught that if an Eastern Rite Bishop was elected to the Papacy that at his elevation to the throne of St. Peter as Patriarch of the west he would cease to be Eastern and would ipso facto become Latin.Much like a Priest of a religious order such as the Dominicans, would cease to be member of the order at elevation to the Epicopate or Papacy.

Khaled is right. Should an Eastern Bishop be elected as Bishop of Rome (which is why he is the pope) and should he accept that election he would become a Latin Bishop. As Patriarch of the West he would automatically be transferred to that Church sui iuris. Interestingly, the pope is permitted to celebrate any of the Church's liturgies as if they were his own. Thus he may use the Mass, the Divine Liturgy, the Quorbono, the Mozarabic or whatever liturgy he wishes. This is rarely done (although Pope Paul VI was actually Ambrosian -- the Liturgy of St. Ambrose of Milan) and he did, on occasion, use that Liturgy.

Fr. Deacon Edward

This is disappointing news to me. I am sure that it would be awkward for many Latins to have an Eastern Pontiff who remained Eastern. However, Eastern Catholics have had to deal with Latin Pontiffs. Alas, not my will, the Will of God be done.

God be with you all!

Thank you for all the information all of you gave me. It is definately true that it is all in God's hands and he knows what the Church needs. But I can't help to emagine all the benefits that I think the Church would get from maybe an eastern Pope. Maybe the Latin liturgy could benefit. Maybe unity could be better acheived between east and west. Not just between the Orthodox and the Catholic but between the Eastern and western Catholics as well. I think both sides can learn a lot from eachother and a lot of misunderstandings still exist. Maybe an African Pope would also be a very ecumenical thing for our day and age? What about a Jewish descent Pope? Just a few thoughts. But again I am not God. I just think the Church needs something to shake it up. Pope John Paul II has really done that and I just don't want it to stop. Sorry for going off like that!! Just some more ideas to toss around

In Christ

Ben

The Gracious Lord has never imposed a place of inferiority upon His Orthodox children. He richly rewards us for our devotion to the True Faith!

[This message has been edited by Raskolnik (edited 05-18-2000).]

Raskolnic --

I wonder if you know how silly all the bickering between Orthodox and Latin and Byzantine looks to me as an outsider?

About 18 months ago I started on a pilgrimage towards the historic catholic faith from a position of extreme anti-catholicism. Although I am not home yet, still trying to "get it all together" as it were, I see some things from the outside which I really wish my brothers in the historic catholic faith would see.

A) You have the Real Presence of the Blessed Eucharist. Not the bare rememberance of stupid baptistry, or the "almost but not quite real presence of Presbyterianism and Anglicanism", but the real article. This should be a point of very strong love and unity and rejoicing.

B) You have real priests with authority from God as given to the Apostles, not men who are unauthorized to be in the pulpit and whose heresies show that they are not being led and taught by the Holy Spirit.

c) You have the right salvation program as you baptize your converts and infant children into the Faith and save them from the damnation of sin by such an act.

D) You all have the most beautiful liturgies. This is where I am really, really jealous and wish God would hurry up and get me to where He wants me. There is nothing like liturgy (I have become something of a liturgy geek) and especially the acapella Eastern Rite. Can't get enough of it.

E) More than 90% of your teachings and doctrines are historical catholicism, faithful and true to the teachings of the 7 Great Eccumenical Councils and the historical undivided Church. The Protestant Rebellion has nothing like this as they hiss and spit and fight among each other.

And there is more. I know you are jealous for truth. Would that there be that spirit in more of those who sit in the pews (or stand if you are Orthodox!). But with so much truth shared, it continually saddens me, and makes my homecoming more difficult, to see these three great expressions of the faith fighting rather than celebrating their commonality and most of all, discussing with respect as brethren those areas of concern.

I covet your prayers for me that God would continue to teach me of the faith, show me his will, and lead me to the expression of the historic catholic faith where he wants me. I still have to get some of the teachings from my head to my heart, or as I told a Catholic friend of mine -- I have to stop thinking Protestant. Big job after being one all my life.

But God is good and I trust Him to do so in His time.

Brother Ed

Defensor Fidei

Glory to God, Catholics and Orthodox have all the great gifts from Above, and many more, and like all spoiled children, we very often don't appreciate them. It must look all of a lovers' spat to outsiders looking in. I am sorry for that. But God's truth is objective and not subjective, as many liberal Protestants,Catholics, and Orthodox believe. Therefore, the search for the best way to apply God's apodictic truth must continue between Catholics and Orthodox or we might as well resign ourselves to (at least) another 1,000 yrs. of separation. Running away from the tough questions will not unite us! As painful and as bitter as the "dialogue" might be, this is no time for us to turn coward and run from the task !(The hatred we sometimes show for one another makes me as sick as anyone.)

[This message has been edited by Raskolnik (edited 05-18-2000).]

Dear Ed,
I too am a "Liturgy Geek". Aint it great? All things in moderation! Except the love of God and Beautiful Liturgy.

I love country-western dancing. But it doesn't ensure my salvation.

I love the tsamiko, hassapiko and other Greek folk dances. But it doesn't ensure my salvation.

I love the Byzantine (and other) liturgies. But they don't ensure my salvation.

As Khaled points out: it is love of God --and not in moderation-- that ensures my salvation. Liturgy -- though wonderful and uplifting-- is only a tool to that end.

The Gospel clearly teaches us that the dual commandments of love of God and love of one's neighbor is what God requires of us. The rest is just frosting on the cake.

Truthseeker, I am a convert also. By convert I mean that I decided to seek truth and I found it and continue to find it deeper everyday. Read the Early Church Fathers. Concentrate mainly on the topic of the Bishop of Rome. If you find out the truth about the successor of Peter then everything eles is just details. I will pray for you daily. Comehome

Papal-idolatry is unseemly to the soul inflamed and captivated by the love of the True Shepherd-Christ Jesus.

CHRISTOS VOSKRESE!

Dear "Raskolnik",
First of all, who are you dissenting from? The Pope, I would suppose, unless you are an Old Believer, but if you were then you wouldn't be calling yourself that, then
Secondly, I do not know any Catholic who believes that the Pope is the head over the entire church. On earth, he holds primacy, but even he submits himself to Our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the true world-wide head of the Church.

God be with you!

Feodosij, rab' Bozhij

Some of your popes had different ideas about themselves. Pope Innocent IV declared he was Praesentia Corporalis Christi, the bodily presence of Christ. At least he gave the faithful a true body-idol to worship! Do you think most Catholics know how truly evil many of he popes were? I am curious. Very perceptive about the name. I assumed others would make the connection earlier. I actually knew an Old Believer from one of the sects sans priests,etc., whose name was.....! I never asked him if he had low self-esteem.