www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Eastern Pope?

Khaled! You are so right. We have been separated for over 1,000 yrs. The "split" came long before 1054. We just do not like one another and haven't since, probably, the beginning of the Faith. "East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet" makes all the sense in the world to this sinner. This has been a terrible experience and one I hope I am never stupid enough to repeat! On the bright side, I really know why I am Orthodox! Christ is King and His Throne is Eternal!

[This message has been edited by Micah (edited 05-23-2000).]

Folks! Calm down.

I, like you guys, make mistakes by over-reacting and saying things I regret. I must admit that there are times when I get mad when I read at somebody's posts especially Robert Sweiss.

Please don't make the same mistakes I make: Getting all upset (which causes irrationality in your minds) and writing down and pressing "RETURN" so fast. Take your time, walk around, pray or whatever before you press "RETURN."

Perhaps you can let somebody else (a friend? a family member?) read your reply before you press "RETURN."

If we do these things, we may go, "Whoa! That's unlike me. I better change my tone of statement I made...etc."

I truly believe that none of us are really that way (except maybe Robert...wink wink .)

I've seen a program on TV very recently about the fact e-mails or chat rooms causes many divisions between families and friends simply because we think and press "RETURN" too fast at the same time and then actually feel bad or regret it later on and can't take it back which your mind would but the computer wouldn't.

Does that make sense? I have a lot to learn about that too.

PEACE!

spdundas

Spdundas
Well said. I to have been guilty of the exact same thing. Maybe Micah is right on the "east is east and west,,," thing. If so, then so sad. I have always believed in an old saying I once heard which goes "When emotions come into a discussion, then logic goes out the door". Let's just hope that everybody will come back into this discussion and continue to express their beliefs/views and that I can learn more about our church.

John T

"No wild beasts are as hostile to humans as Christians are to one another."-Ammionus Marallinus-4th century historian.

Dear Theodosy,
You are extremely quite immature and highly emotional. How dare you accuse me of hatred and contempt for Byzantine Catholics? Just because I dare to argue and debate issues that are foreign to Orthodoxy does not equate to hatred. You sound like a Zionist Jew that goes around screaming 'anti-semitism' just because one critizes and does not accept Zionism. I know you are still a teenager and have much growing up to endure. What Orthodoxy believes and does not believe is very hard for you to swallow as much as it was for the Pharisees of Jesus' time. I think you need a reality check when it comes to a certain group exhibiting supremacy. I think you better look in your own backyard and history when it comes to Latin Supremacy! For your personal information I have no hatred for anyone even my wife who is still a Roman Catholic. From my personal experience I believe many Roman Catholics are great people and honest as well. Many are naive about what they believe and don't believe. I don't know how or even why I should hate a Roman Catholic. Many don't know about Orthodoxy!I know many Roman Catholics who agree with me on a number of dogmatic issues and reserve there doubts about the Papacy to themselves. They are not willinging at this time to convert to Orthodoxy anymore than my Muslim friends are. Just because you believe differently than I do does not give you the right to accuse me of hatred. I will concede that I hate lies and heresy and I will be blunt about it as I am to some of my Byzantine catholic friends and relatives as well as to my Muslim friends whom I love dearly. I will take your accusation of me one more step and label it as a lie. I think if you want to be a fair contributor to this forum then challenge what I have stated previously in a calm and dignified manner or otherwise don't. Your posts contain to much exageration about the Orthodox people unless you have made a survey and want to share it with everyone. It must objective not subjective. Are you up to this challenge? If anyone who didn't show love it 's not the Orthodox but the Roman Catholics and her brutal history of people around the world. Have you studied the Crusaders and their "love" upon the East? What about the numerous inquistions and persecutions? The doctrine of "Just War"? You are probably thinking right now that I hate you and you wish I would disappear. I have no reason to slander you and I have no obligation to do so. But I have a personal obligation to correct you when it comes to Apostolic teachings. Your statement about the Orthodox Church is not the True Faith---is this not slander? Is n't slander an attribute of Satan? Please stop with the insults because you are mislead. Yourknowledge of Orthodoxy sounds limited and extremely biased. Lord have mercy upon you.

CHRIST IS RISEN! INDEED HE IS RISEN!


Dear in Christ,

I respectfully request that everyone on this Board stand quietly and pray the Lord's Prayer, being especially mindful of the words.."and forgive us our debts and we forgive our debtors..".

Now, this thread started out as a topic of some interest, but once again degenerated into name-calling and intolerance. This is supposed to be a Board were the relationship of the Church "East and West" may be discussed. It is not a "bully pulpit" for Triumphalism on the part of ANYONE!

I must once again remind my Orthodox Brothers and Sisters, that this is a site presented by Byzantine Catholics, and we ought to try to respect that. One of the greatest attributes of Eastern thought has been Hospitality, a thing I have seen far too little of in the past weeks. We are guests here, act like it!

I do not think that there is anyone here who would reject a solid discussion of a matter, even when they disagree; but there is no need to revert to childish rants " spitting, hair pulling, name calling" and the like. Up until now I have had to reprimand only a few people who post this this list, but I am quite capable of having the Administration ban and block anyone who will persist in unChristian and un gentlemanly behaviour. Please remember, we cannot see your face, we only can read your words, so a jest oftentimes does not read as such. If you cannot post here without accusation, vitriole and triumphalism, whether you are Byzantine Catholic, Orthodox or Roman Catholic then please do not post anymore.

I do not like to have to post such a message every two or three months., but I have been petitioned to say something by several members of these Boards.

I have never posted to this board before, but right now I am so angry and upset - forgive me, Lord - that I will add my own opinion.

Shame on you, Robert Sweiss! What type of a man are you, speaking to Theodosy like that? He is a teen - a boy - and you speak to him with such a vicious attitude? For so long, people reading this board have had to put up with your arrogance. Anyone who doesn't agree with you and your version of Orthodoxy - Sweissian Orthodoxy - is either: A) stupid; B) brainwashed, or C) possessed. Adults may be able to contend with your uncharitable, un-Christian and un-Orthodox behavior, but for you to attack a young boy like that betrays that you are undoubtedly an individual who is in need of some sort of help.

Do you really think your rantings are "converting" anyone to your beliefs - and they're YOUR beliefs, not that of Orthodoxy or the vast majority of those who profess it. Why would anyone want to convert if you're the best example of what Orthodoxy has? If you really care about Orthodoxy, you would simply keep your insulting, demeaning and cruel opinions to yourself. Shame on you, if you are even capable of feeling shame!

And to you, Theodosy, you're a brave young man, an inspiration to all. God grant you many years, and know that when you can pull the chain of someone as inhospitable and mean as Robert Sweiss, you're doing something right. You are none of the things that Robert Sweiss accuses you of either being, or doing - he's just looking in a mirror. You're a fine, decent teen, intelligent, articulate and polite, and let's hope that we can have many more young people like you in the Mystical Body of Christ! After all, young, vibrant and faithful people like you are the future of the Church and the world.

A Nobody

Thank you, Mrs.Freud! Now ban me. Micha the Banned! PS-How long have you been a Jesuit, Kyrill?

Father,

Please...if anything, for the reputation of the Orthodox: Anathema sit.

Gordo, sfo

PS: And that's "Father Kyrill", Micah, or do you forget the honor an Orthodox Christian is supposed to show to those who are consecrated to the service of God and the Church? You shame yourself and your Church.

HUMILITY:

In addition to steping back and taking a deep breath, maybe this little humility prayer I learned in second grade will help keep things in perspective:

"Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto thine".

Shalom a-lei-chem
Jim

Here we go again with the focus exclusively on Robert, that's me. Shame on me? Okay shame on me for telling the truth as it is. Shame on me for having you believe in a runaway heresy such as papal infallibility. Shame on me for not promoting Patriarchal Infallibility. Shame on me for conversing with those who hold to Western heresies. Shame on me for those who speak evil and hatred of me. Shame on me for your sins. Shame on me for not feeling guilty for the acceptance of heresies. Shame on me PERIOD. Shame on me for our fallen human nature. There, how do you feel now about shaming me?

Dear Fr. Kyrill,
Why is it you always come the last minute to break up a nasty fight when you could have interjected many times during these discussions to say,"HOLD ON THERE" or"PLEASE FOCUS ON THE TOPIC RATHER THAN ON ROBERT" or "WAIT A MINUTE,LET'S EVALUATE WHAT HE IS TRULY TRYING TO SAY"? However, the posted topic becomes diluted and loses focus because I become the center of attraction. A case of Truimphalism? Who is triumphing over whom when I stated my questions and receive nasty and insulting replys? I will concede I have been harsh perhaps that is a wrong approach. But that is me. Hate me but don't hate the Message.

Robert,

When I was a teacher, some of my students would pick fights with the other kids, provoking them, insulting them, etc. etc., and when they were nailed by me or another authority figure, they reacted in a similiar way: "Why are you always picking on me, Mr. D? She started it!"

Come on, now. Be realistic, Robert! Either you are completely blind to the fact that the manner of your posts draws attention mainly to yourself as opposed to "the Message" (gee...I've never heard anyone refer to their own posts with such - shall we say - confidence? ), or you're being completely disingenuous.

I've seen you play nice on a few of your posts. I know you know how to do it without provoking reactions. The issue is that you choose not to do it.

So don't go whining to the authority figure that he's not being fair because he gave you a long leash in your postings. You have heard from PLENTY of people in these forums, and have been given ample opportunity to change the way you post.

Your pushiness and insulting tendenies only tend to confirm in my own mind that you are really not convinced that you are where you should be. (Sort of like the tragic women who have abortions, and to avoid their feelings of guilt, they throw themselves into sometimes violent activism for the pro-abortion cause. - I'm not, of course, equating "Orthodoxy" with abortion. I just wonder whether your conscience is bothering you.)If you were truly confident, there would be no need to berate people the way you do. There would be no contradiction in your behavior as you sought to be Orthodox in your faith and Catholic in your love.

We're always here for you Robert. Whether or not you choose to return home to Rome.

In the meantime, be nice.

Pax Romana,

Gordo, sfo

Dozier:You are equating Orthodoxy with abortion and coming from you, I certainly am not surprised. The pillars supporting the papacy are falling all around you, and it is driving you to the point of desperation. You need to return to your Roman rite. People, like you, masquerading as Byzantines, do not belong among the children of the Great Church of Constantinople; you and others of your ilk, belong with your Latin-rite brethren. Some vicious slanders have painted an ugly face on this forum, but to make a sick-minded analogy of Orthodoxy with abortion is the lowest yet and coming from someone who always plays the part of the pious peacemaker, it is hypocritical to the point of lunacy.YOU NEED HELP! You do have the Crusader mentality, with the swaggering oontempt for the Orthodox. You owe Father Kyrill an apology for spitting on his Church and the rest of us for masquerading as a member of the human race. You are finished as a Catholic-Orthodox ecumenist! Your name goes on the list and you are banned! Satan lurks behind the smile of St.Francis. The history of Rome fits you like a glove. You are where you belong-STAY THERE!

[This message has been edited by Vasili (edited 05-25-2000).]

Dear "A Nobody",
God be with you and bless you always!

Thank you for your very kind words to me. They were much appreciated seeing how much criticism we Greek Catholics receive from all sides. As a future priest of the Greek Catholic Church, I try to keep things calm as best I can, and not to provoke anyone, but what good does it do sometimes? I have never hated anyone, regardless of whether they hate me or not, and I pray for all, including Robert and the Orthodox like him who cannot stop hating everyone around them. It makes me very sad to see these so-called "Christians" defiling and denying Our Lord by their actions and their words.

Vasili: It is truly sad that you, like many of your Orthodox brethren, must resort to hatred to try and prove your point. I am sorry that you feel so much pain that you lash out as us Greek Catholics, simple, pious, God-loving Christians that we are. You do not see us stooping so low as to spew hatred upon you, so why must you do it to us? I think that it goes far beyond the fact that we are Catholic and you are Orthodox. I think that you are just like the Nazis and others who hate people different from them, and try to tell everyone how superior they are. I do not pretend to judge you, and regardless of what you say, I will still continue to call you a brother, as we are both creations of Christ. May the Lord God soften your hardened heart, so full of pain, suffering, doubt, and hatred, and bring it to know the true peace that comes from loving God and loving all men as yourself. The same goes for Robert.

God grant us all to love Thee and love each other as ourselves, as Thou didst command us. Amen.

As the priest chants at Divine Liturgy:
Mir vsyem'! (Peace be unto all!)

Feodosij, rab' Bozhij
Future priest of the Greek Catholic Church.

Robert,
I was re-reading your post, and I would like to make a brief comment on it. You say that WE hate YOU? Forgive me for laughing, but this is pretty pitiful, Robert. Who has been condemning us Catholics up and down nonstop since he's first joined this list. While I hold my own opinions about the Orthodox Churches, and who is in schism from who, and so forth, I do not go to Orthodox clubs or chatrooms or whatever and preach my opinions there. So, why must you do the same here? You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but why must you throw out so much hatred upon us. Your words of hatred are neither a credit to the Orthodox Church or to yourself, and you deny the same Christ you say that you believe in by your words. I pray for you, Robert, that your heart is softened by the Holy Spirit.

"Tsarju nebesny, outeshitelju, dushe Istinny, izhe vezde sy, i vsja ispolnjajay, sokrovishche blagikh, i zhizhni podatelju, priydi i vselisja v ny, i ochisti ny ot vsjakija skverny, i spasi blazhe dushe nasha."

"Heavenly King, Comfortor, Spirit of Truth, Who art everywhere and fillest all, Treasury of good things and Giver of life: come and dwell within us, and cleanse us from every impurity, and save our souls, O Good One."

"Let us love one another..."

Feodosij, rab' Bozhij.

[This message has been edited by Theodosy (edited 05-25-2000).]