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#119119 02/01/02 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Their Apostle is St Frumentius, the "Anba Salama" or "Father of Peace" along with Sts. Philip and Matthew.

I didn't know that their apostles were SS. Philip and Matthew...together they make up my full name! Oh, to get an icon of these guys...I suppose St. Thomas isn't as big with them...two out of three ain't bad, though!

#119120 02/01/02 04:39 PM
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Dear Catholicos,

Yes, Philip was the one who converted the servant of St Candace, Queen of Ethiopia, in the acts. Matthew knew of the Ethiopians' Jewish ancestry and his Gospel was popular there.

But they love all the Apostles, including Thomas! smile

Alex

#119121 02/01/02 05:26 PM
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Alex, quick question before I leave...

Who actually was the Philip in the Acts who converted the Ethiopian official? I thought it was the Apostle Philip, but then others said it was the Deacon Philip, and I've always been confused...who was it? Thanks!

#119122 02/01/02 05:33 PM
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Dear Catholicos,

Where are you going in such a hurry?

According to Ethiopic tradition, that St Philip was the Apostle and not the Deacon.

They will continue to hold that belief no matter what the Jesus Seminar et al. will tell them to the contrary smile

Alex

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

#119123 02/01/02 07:47 PM
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Dear Orthodox Catholic:

Ahh�

�Every Ethiopian Church must have a tabot or Ark �

This is what I am interested in for a moment of research. If you would supply me some details I would appreciate it.

The strong impression I get is that (speaking of the material of the Ark and not what is written on the tablets) - is that there are the stone tablets - which are inside a wooden case - which is inside the larger wooden chest which is itself encased inside an out with a gold layer (thick gold leaf).

My first hint of this three-fold nature of the �ark� actually came from reading interviews with an elderly Ethiopian priest who claimed he was one of the few who had seen the ark and its contents and lived. He was asked to describe the �ark� and what he described was a smaller wooden case (no gold). This confused the interviewer who expecting the �ark� to be the larger chest covered in gold. But apparently the �ark� to the priest was this smaller wooden case inside the larger chest. The interviewer missed the cause of confusion and it was passed over.

The Tabot the priest was describing seems to be a wooden �case� about the size of what the stone tablets would have been� and it seemed to me that the stone tablets themselves would have been inside it.

This seems to make perfect sense in that you can imagine what would happen if coarse stone tablets were placed directly on a soft-gold surface and then bumped around for years on a ox-drawn cart with wooden wheels where there are no roads. In the very least the gold leaf would rub away in short time. I expect the wood-tabot originally cased the stone tablets as a �crate� for many practical reasons. It would prevent breakage of the thin tablets (think of the breakage of the thicker Rosette stone!) and would allow the tablets to be lifted out at once (not sliding together in the hands) when they were removed for public reading. And in Deuteronomy - a revision of the translation may have it that for the second set of tablets God told Moses to make an ark of wood (no gold) - and bring it up the mountain - to put the tablets in before bringing them down. Can you imagine Moses lugging up a huge gold trunk on his back - by himself?

The Tabot that the UK returned was wooden - like a plain wooden block painted with a picture of the larger ark - but I do not read anywhere the size. A �block� seems to describe something smaller and plain where we would expect the larger tabot to be described as a ornate chest.

As you know, if you have done any research and reading about the Ark, the events surround Exodus (Mt. Sinai) and Deuteronomy (Mt. Horeb) must be correlated and are not written in our own expectation of chronological sequence. (Hey - it is not a Western history book.) While the social ordinances (animal sacrifices etc..) were apparently written when Moses was down in the camp (Exodus 24:3-4) the 10 Commandments (the Ten Words in the Jewish mind) were the only writing on the stone tablets (both the original and the second copy). Portions of later prophets confirm that these social laws - although called �covenant� and �the word of God� in Exodus - were not the original covenant (on the tablets) but a further code of social laws patterned after what was on the tablets.

It seems far too ease of the phonetic (sound) similarity between tabot and tablet (I suspect tablet to be Latin) and that a tablet (book) can be considered the container of the �story� just as a book is a container of a story - is - too easy. There must not be anything to it� but that the prophet Ezekiel (I think) describes God �riding on the tabot� which is the �chariot� between the cherubim - is very interesting. I will have to look that up. Could �tabot� and �ark� and �container� all be the same root?
If you can tell me, please tell me� Have you seen an Ethiopian tobot? Can you describe it? And size?

I would expect the personal tabots to be stylized and such - leaning toward the symbolic but based upon the original. Is the personal tabot patterned after the large ark or smaller wooden ark? Anything you can tell me (objectively) on this would be appreciated.

On another subject - I would guess that the one in Ethiopia is one of the several copies (I forget where in the old testament it talks of �the ark will be made no more.� suggesting replacements were manufactured) and I would think the High Priests no dummies and that none of the several princes (sons of Solomon) would be allowed within ten feet of the original ark (any son capturing it could conceivably overthrow his father) and that a duplicate would be �on display� in its place. The original well hidden - and perhaps Solomon alone allowed to visit it anytime he wished - but I suspect no king wished to chance visiting it and die - if he did not have to - other than that only once a year did it come out to replace the copy when the high priest (chosen by lot) officiated on the Day of Atonement (the one day a year the cloud of God�s presence visibly descended).

I would guess that stone tablets (copies) are not in the Ethiopian copy but that is a wild guess - the tablets may very well have also been copied just like copies of the original US Constitution exist - but in as much as the stone tables are the most sacred �kernel� of the ark - perhaps they were considered to sacred to have any copies out and about. No doubt temple-study copies existed for High Priest schooling

Unraveling these things is fascinating.

Tell me what you personally have observed about the �tabot� so I might adjust my views.

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: -ray ]


-ray
#119124 02/01/02 08:17 PM
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Dear Ray,

When it comes to the Ethiopian Church, I am good.

But not that good . . .

I would recommend this site:

http://www.ethio-stmichael.org/

This site also has some Ethiopian icons and an explanation of the Tabot, I believe.

You might wish to ask your questions here.

I've seen the Tabot at our local Ethiopian Church, and, from what I can make out, it is as you say, with stone in wood etc.

I must confess that the structure never really interested me, although it is a most worthy object of interest, so I've never given it any thought, much less paid closer attention to it when I've had the chance.

Once you've received answers to your specific questions, please do share them with us here!

Alex

#119125 02/02/02 04:50 AM
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I suggest these pages:

http://www.angelfire.com/ny3/ethiochurch/

http://www.angelfire.com/ak/sellassie/page30.html

http://members.tripod.com/~faithibmfaith/index-39.html

As for Bob Marley, he converted to the Ethiopian Church at the end of his life.

In IC XC
Samer

[Ark of the Covenant News!

Gather by JOHN CHOPORES

All quotes [if not stated otherwise] are from the "JERUSALEM POST".

(From "The New York Times") January 27, 1998

What Ethiopians Believe Is the Ark of the Covenant Rests in Aksum By JAMES C. McKINLEY Jr.

KSUM, Ethiopia -- Like many Ethiopians, the deacon who greets visitors outside St. Mary of Zion Church here has no doubt about the exact location of the Ark of the Covenant, the most sacred object of the Old Testament and the focus of one of the greatest mysteries of all time.

Asked what became of the golden chest that Moses built to hold the Ten Commandments, the deacon, Fiseha Asfaw, just smiled at what he saw as an absurd question. Everyone in this windswept and dusty land knows that the ark is in a square stone temple beside the ancient church, he said. Replicas of the ark are brought out at this time of year for a fervent religious celebration.

The ark has lain here in Ethiopia's most sacred city for nearly 3,000 years, since the time of Solomon, he said, hidden among hundreds of other relics and old manuscripts. It is guarded by a single monk with nothing more dangerous than a wooden cross in his hands.

"No one but the monk can look at it," Fiseha said. "Not even the archbishop. If they look at it, they will soon feel sickness and die. It is God's commandments. The true commandments of God."

For centuries, Ethiopian Christian priests have maintained that they have the sacred ark that the rest of the world believes is lost. ...

There is some confusion about what precisely the monks are hiding behind the faded red-velvet curtain over the doorway of the temple's domed sanctuary. Most people envision the ark as the large gold-covered chest with two cherubim on top described in the Bible and depicted by Hollywood in the Steven Spielberg movie "Raiders of the Lost Ark."

But in interviews in recent days, priests and monks who say they have seen the relic denied that they have the heavy chest Moses is said to have built, which they refer to as "the chair of the ark."

Instead, they say their ark is a white stone tablet inscribed with the Ten Commandments and kept in a shallow solid-gold case. They say that this tablet was inscribed by God and carried down from Mount Sinai by Moses.

"Yes, it is here, it is the original Ark of the Covenant, the one given to Moses," the chief priest of St. Mary of Zion Church, Nebura-ed Belai, said. "The chair of the ark is not there."

...

Placing [a copy of]the ark in the center of their places of worship is not the only tradition the Ethiopian Christians have retained from ancient Judaism. Christians here also observe the Saturday Sabbath and follow Jewish strictures about clean and unclean foods. Boys are circumcised on the eighth day after birth. ...

Still, many historians and archeologists say that there is almost no evidence to support the legend that the original ark came to Ethiopia. To begin with, the Axumite kingdom did not appear until the first century B.C., at least eight centuries after Solomon.

Many experts on Ethiopia have dismissed the story as a 12th-century fabrication, a piece of propaganda intended to lend legitimacy to a new line of Ethiopian rulers. AKSUM, Ethiopia: Ethiopian rulers.

"There is absolutely no historical truth to this legend, this tradition, of a pre-Christian, Judaic state in Aksum," said Professor Taddesse Tamrat, a history scholar at Addis Ababa University. "This legend is nothing else but a legend. It is not history."

Yet the idea of the ark's presence in Ethiopia has not only persisted; for the vast majority of faithful in the Ethiopian church, it has taken on the weight of historical fact. The entire society is infused with a reverence for the ark, especially during religious festivals like the Timkat celebration.

Graham Hancock, a journalist and a former writer for the Economist magazine, wrote in a 1992 book, "The Sign and the Seal" (William Heinemann Ltd.), that he had found evidence in Ethiopian Jewish folklore, Old Testament scriptures, and some archeological sites suggesting there is a kernel of truth to the legend.

In his book, Hancock argued that Jewish priests took the ark out of Israel during the brutal reign of Manasseh, a Jewish monarch in the seventh century B.C. who worshiped pagan gods, and carried it to a new temple on an island near Aswan in Egypt.

Two hundred years later, Hancock theorizes, a war in Egypt forced Jewish priests to flee again with the ark, traveling up the Nile and its tributaries to Lake Tana in Ethiopia, where local tradition holds it was housed in a tent for 800 years until the first Christian king of Aksum seized it and installed it in his capital.

Biblical scholars say the ark appears to have been lost sometime between 955 B.C., when Solomon built the first temple in Jerusalem to house it, and 587 B.C., when Nebuchadnezzar's army razed the city, but, according to the Bible, did not find the ark. Though the ark is mentioned more than 200 times in the books before Solomon's reign, it appears only a few times in later books, mostly in lamentations about its absence.

Hancock's theory has heightened interest in Ethiopia's claim to harbor the relic and has attracted visitors to Aksum (sometimes spelled Axum). Some tourists have tried to bribe the guardian to see it, monks said. Others have been arrested trying to scale the iron fence around the ark's building.

In separate interviews, a monk who briefly guarded the ark in 1983 and a retired head priest who said he had seen the relic twice described it as a single tablet of white polished stone inscribed with the Ten Commandments in Hebrew. They said the tablet is about 2 1/2 feet long and 1 1/2 inches thick and is housed in a gold box three inches thick, with a hinged lid and no designs.

Their descriptions do not match the biblical descriptions of the lost Ark of the Covenant. In Exodus, Chapter 25, the ark is meticulously described as a wooden box covered with gold, about the size of a tea chest. It measured 3 feet 9 inches long, 2 feet 3 inches wide, and 2 feet 3 inches high. On top was a heavy lid of solid gold on which stood two cherubim with uplifted wings, facing each other. Moreover, there were two stone tablets laid in the ark, not one, the Scriptures say.

"The man who stole the ark hid it in the small box only, not the big one," said the Rev. Gebreab Maru, who was head priest at St. Mary of Zion for nearly 20 years before retiring in 1985. "It is true the larger box never came to Ethiopia."

The monks said the relic seemed to have paranormal powers. They said that at night it sometimes appeared to give off light. They also said it was hard to look at the tablet in daylight because it was so smooth and mirrorlike.

"When I looked at it, it was completely difficult to understand it," the former head priest said. "It makes me very afraid and my eyes filled with tears."

A former guardian of the ark, Wolde Giorgis Wolde Gebrial, said: "It is like a mirror, very smooth, not quite white. Sometimes it looks like water."

At midnight each night, the guardian must begin burning incense and praying incessantly, reading psalms and scriptures. The guardian must keep a vigil over the ark until 3 p.m. the next day, when he is allowed to rest and eat, he said. Sometimes hermits and monks are permitted into the building at night to pray to the relic, he said.

"The Holy Spirit is with it," the monk said. "We can't sleep near the ark. We must be aware and at prayer."

The current guardian, the Rev. Tekle Mariam, declined to be interviewed or photographed for this article.

The Israeli ambassador to Ethiopia, Avi Granot, said that he had visited Aksum and questioned the monks about the relic, but that Israel has made no official request to see the object, much less have it returned. Granot said that Israel regards the monks' claim as a legend with no historical footing.

"I think this is one of those mysterious stories where the beauty will remain forever in the mystery," Granot said. "It's one of those things in which no one is really interested in deciphering the mystery for the fear that the disillusionment will be great."

... Behind them came scores of deacons and lower-ranking priests, dressed in white and wearing turbans, who sang the mournful and nasal hymns of Ethiopian church music. They used their long T-shaped prayer sticks in a slowly accelerating dance before the tabots, a step said to have been handed down from King David.

None doubted that the real ark of the covenant lay in the church at Aksum. None doubted that the spirit of God was hovering in their replica arks in the tent.

"It's not just an old legend," said Simon Teferra, 24, a management consultant. "The ark came from King Solomon. The bishops taught me this and I am following it. Why should I doubt it? We are holy. If you have no religion, you will have many problems. I believe in the Ark of the Covenant. The power comes from God. The arks are holy."

9/18/98 (from "CHICAGO Jewish Star") The Ark: Finally Found? By DOUGLAS DAVIS ...believes he has found the burial site of the Ten Commandments-in a part of the West Bank that Israel has already handed over to the Palestinian Authority. Michael Sanders, ...bases his theory on satellite images, Egyptian papyrus documents from the British Museum in London and other accounts. ...Sanders,...has spent more than 25 years researching biblical history. ...he is planing to excavate the site, where he has detected the contours of an Egyptian temple that he believes may have been build over the burial site of the biblical Ark of the Covenant. ...The Ark of the Covenant...disappeared from Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem after a raid by an Egyptian king in the 10th BC... It was never recovered... Sanders believes the ark was seized by Egyptian King Shishak when Solomon's Temple was plundered in 925 BC...the first in a series of Egyptian raids on Jerusalem. He says papyrus documents in the British Museum have identified an Egyptian temple at the southern end of the West Bank, beneath which the ark may have been buried. "This temple is referred to in the papyrus as a "mysterious house in the land of Zahi," ... In 1830, ...Edward Robinson walked the route that had been taken by the invading Egyptians and found ancient ruins at the village of Dhahiriya. Satellite images have also revealed ruins at the southern end of Dhahiriya, the remains of an ancient Egyptian temple. ..."If the Egyptians had just seized the most sacred religious codes [the Ten Commandments, kept in the Ark] from the people they had invaded, they would have laid them in the foundations of their new temple."

Published: 09-09-94 Byline: Aviva Bar-Am Twenty kilometers east of the Mediterranean Sea the flattop mound of Tel Miqne-Ekron towers over the Coastal Plain. Originally the site of a Canaanite settlement, the hill is better known as one of five fortified Philistine cities mentioned in the Bible. It also contains impressive remains of an Israelite fortress. � Ekron is mentioned in the Bible any number of times as one of five major Philistine cities: Ashdod, Gath, Ashkelon, Gaza and Ekron. It was also the last of these cities to host the Ark of the Covenant, which the Philistines wrested from the Children of Israel in battle and took to Ashdod and later Gath. Following disasters in each of the cities, the Philistines ordered two cows to be hitched to a wooden cart and the holy ark placed on top. Then they watched as the animals pulled it straight up toward Beit Shemesh in Israelite territory (I Samuel 5-6).

Published: 07-29-94

A Texas Bible scholar using NASA satellite photos said yesterday he has discovered Gilgal, the biblical campsite of the holy Ark of the Covenant, just south of Jericho. Vendyl Jones, of Arlington, Texas, �Jones' team of 37 Christian volunteers partially uncovered walls 11 meters wide and about 50 centimeters high running some 300 by 500 meters. These, he claimed, formed the partition surrounding the Mishkan, the biblical tabernacle. Published: Sunday, May 10, 1992 Byline: News agencies A Texas Bible scholar digging in desert caves said Friday he had found ritual incense from the Temple and may be close to finding a bigger treasure, the Ark of the Covenant. Vendyl Jones said he found the incense in the same complex of caves above the Dead Sea where in the 1940s Arab shepherds first discovered the Dead Sea Scrolls. � He used as his treasure map the so-called Copper Scroll, part of the Dead Sea Scrolls. He said the scroll lists 64 places where Temple treasures, including the Ark of the Covenant that tradition says holds the Ten Commandments, were hidden from the advancing Romans in the first century. � But Jones said his belief in the Copper Scrolls was vindicated when he found a small jug of anointing oil from the Temple in a nearby cave in 1988. � Among the lost artifacts Jones said he hopes to recover, in addition to the Ark of the Covenant and the original tabernacle built by Moses and Aaron, are the Ashes of the Red Heifer.

[] are mine.

By the way. You will notice, that I do not sell anything on this site. No CD's, books or anything.

I believe that News about the "Ark", should be free to all! Thank you!

If you have any News items about the Temple, that you think I should include, please E-mail me a copy. E-mail me at: godfaith7@aol.com]

#119126 02/02/02 02:33 PM
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Dear Orthodox Catholic:


I have found some very interesting stuff after a day of searching the net. But it needs sifting.

In a few days I will post some findings here.

-ray


-ray
#119127 02/05/02 04:11 AM
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The Ark.

http://www.shortcuts.com/dr_munro-hay.html
http://www.pbs.org/wonders/Episodes/Epi4/4_retel1.htm

Above is the two most interesting links I found for the Ark.

Checking these and other references I have come to the following opinion.

Indeed, the gold chest, the wooden case, and the stone tablets themselves are each called �the Ark of the Covenant�. This circumstance, according to Jewish ways, would make the Chest and the wooden case �Arks� according to the virtue of what they contain. This would make, of all the materials, the stones - to be the Ark of the Covenant - proper.

It appears that, when Solomon�s son came back from Abyssinia (Ethiopia of today), he was readily recognized by Solomon because of his blond hair and ruddy complexion (apparently as Solomon himself had).

The other princes became jelous (apparently Solomon favored this returned son) and demanded he be sent away. Solomon (always the wise) agreed if each of their own first born sons went also! But unfortunately for Solomon - they agreed! And it was the son of the High Priest (and of the tier of High Priests himself) who took the wooden case containing the stone tablets of Moses - to Ethiopia.

I would suspect that what he took, were duplicates... but who could be sure of that? He may just as well have taken the originals?!

It is the Western mind that thinks of the Ark in the sense of it being a large chest - and this has brought a confusion to our minds - for the Ethiopian, the Ark of the Covenant is first and foremost the tablets, and secondly the case containing the tablets, and thirdly the gold chest.

Are there two tablets of stone? This is difficult to tell. Each Ethiopian church has a copy or replica of the Ark (a wooden case with stone tablet(s) inside. At times, the stone itself sits on the altar and upon it - takes place the sacrifice (Eucharist). The Ark in each church consists of a wooden case - with some representation of the Ark painted on it. Only the priesthood is allowed to see the tablets (stone)inside. There are descriptions given from a few non-priests who have viewed the common church tablets. One description is a slender stone, about 9X12, engraved with vines and flowers and such on the back and engraved with the same around the edge of the front with the Ten Commandments engraved inside that 'frame'.

The Ethiopians follow the Jewish way of calling the Ten Commandments - the �Ten Words�.

There seems to exist one (elderly priest) released from service to the Ark (old age illness) who describes THE Ark (kept in the Church of the Ark and guarded) as � a green and white sapphire like stone which at times seems to shimmer like the surface of water. Wow.

One must take human nature into mind and the fear and awe that these Ethiopians have for the power of the Ark (they believe God is present �within� the tablets� and you may be struck dead) one might imagine that - as the human psychology may do - the shimmering like liquid water may be more in the eyes and mind of the awe struck beholder. The very least we could say is that whatever they have - is not slate or granite but more gem like and the surface is highly polished (perhaps from 4000 years hands touching it).

What is described, and what the common church copies are, is - one tablet. The individual church copies are - one tablet (keep in mind this is a representation or replica which may be stylized just as the Byzantine icon is a stylization). The description of the originals - was of one tablet - but that does not mean there are not two (one on top of the other in the wooden case) - the interview did not go into how many. The Priest described one tablet - but we may also assume the other tablet was just like it so the description of one - covered the two. Soo.. One original tablet or two? is unknown.

If it is the Ten Words (Ten Commandments) on the tablet(s) or the first four Creation stories - is unknown.

-ray

[ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: -ray ]


-ray
#119128 02/05/02 02:25 PM
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Dear -ray,

Thank you for sharing this!

I visited our Ethiopian Orthodox Church and was allowed to view the Tabot that was on the Altar. It was like a diptych of two tablets, wrapped in fine blue linen.

Of course, one takes off one's shoes inside the Church, one may hold a staff or miquamia to support oneself during the long prayers and there are musical instruments and sobre liturgical dancing as well.

I am now the proud owner of an Ethiopian liturgical umbrella.

There is just something about it . . .

God bless,

Alex

#119129 02/05/02 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
I am now the proud owner of an Ethiopian liturgical umbrella.

There is just something about it . . .


Dear Alex,

What must your wife think of your "liturgical circus"? You have something of everything, it seems... smile

#119130 02/05/02 04:58 PM
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Dear Catholicos,

And yesterday I got a large poster of the Brown Madonna from Naples with a great big scapular . . .

We have an agreement, my better half and I - she tolerates my umbrellas, staffs and icons, - and I go house-hunting and shopping with her!!

She feels that is "50-50." But I bring my prayer rope along.

That's the only time I ever "cheat" in our marriage . . .

Alex

#119131 02/06/02 06:01 AM
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Dear Alex...


You may be interested in this...
http://www.moses-egypt.net/moses_e0.asp
read Chapters 1 and 2 and let me know what you think. If you care to - no pressure. It may not interest you at all.

I want to compliment you on your well rounded-ness and apparent level head. I have read several of your posts on different topics and - well - enjoy your ways.

-ray


-ray
#119132 02/06/02 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
We have an agreement, my better half and I - she tolerates my umbrellas, staffs and icons, - and I go house-hunting and shopping with her!!

She feels that is "50-50."

Dear Alex,

Don't be fooled! That's 60-40...going shopping with a woman is a nightmare! smile

If you really wanted to "cheat", you would not just bring your prayer rope, but also carry around that umbrella. biggrin

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