www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Patriarch Lubomyr on Ecumenism

My dearest Durak,

If you mean the Orthodox Ukrainian's outnumber the Greek Catholic Ukrainian's you would be right. If you mean there are no Greek Catholic communities spread throughout the Ukraine as a whole you would be very wrong. Their are Orthodox Communities were there were only Greek Catholic Communities. There are Greek Catholic Communities were once there were only Orthodox communities. And recently, they all seem to be getting along because they are very similar.

What I was specifically referring to was U.G.C.C. members in the Ukraine itself and U.G.C.C. members in North America.

???. I was referring to all U.G.C.C. members getting back to their true Kyivian faith.

Steven said: "I agree that Ukrainian dispora members are very latinized. But how many Ukrainian's are in the dipora? Generous number 300,000."

Hardly! Maybe that go to an Eastern Ukrainian church.

You have to rememeber Baptists, Jews, Pentecostals, Mormons, those in the OCA, ROCOR, MP churches plus those that I know of who go to Antochian parishes and Greek parishes. Some go to Byzantine (Ruthenian) parishes.

There are Ukrainians who don't even go to church.

You must not forge those Ukrainian Catholics who go to Roman Catholic churches

There is also a "fourth wave" of immigrants that is numbering around 300,000 in Sacramento alone!

They are out there alright, not always in Eastern Churches, where maybe they should be, but thats just me..........

Don't I KNOW it!! Mostly Evangelical Protestants!!!!

But I remember what a lady in the bookstore at the ROCOR Cathedral in SF said "They always come to Pascha to have their baskets blessed!!!" )

They might come back still!!!!!!!!

Brian

I think the good Patriarch is right on many things here. But still, Primacy of Juridiction and Papal Infaliibility are MAJOR stumbling blocks. That can't be avoided by a division between "Curia and Pope". The Pope still claims these dogmas, the Curia nonewithstanding.

God, that makes me sound like OrthoDoc!

God, I hope not )))))) Gospodi POmilui!!!

Brian

Slava Isusu Christu!

Dear UC,

I believe 40% of the population does not go to Church . But I believe they are doing something very right with their religious diversity.

Not all of the UC's in the diaspora are latinized...we are making strides towards reversing this trend. Patriach Lubomyr and his Studites are a big part of the renewal.

Slava Isusu Christu!

Dear Deacon Diak,

I very much agree with that statement.

The Studites in the U.G.C.C. are very much our future.

Pilgrim and Odd Duck[/qb][/QUOTE]I think the good Patriarch is right on many things here. But still, Primacy of Juridiction and Papal Infaliibility are MAJOR stumbling blocks. That can't be avoided by a division between "Curia and Pope". The Pope still claims these dogmas, the Curia nonewithstanding.
Brian[/QB][/QUOTE]

Esteemed Brian,
You summed up well and clearly why I thought playing the "Curia card" was a canard.

Hey, I agree with you guys, and talking about Studites, we need them down here.
I wonder if Patriarch Husar ever visits this Forum.
Lauro

Dear Steven,

I just hope the Studites don't become idealized to the point where many will hold them up as the "way things should be" but will, for that very same reason, hold back from joining them due to their strictness etc.

It's happened before, you know . . .

Do they have something analogous to a "Third Order?"

I really think that might be a good support group for their mission.

Alex

Slava Isusu Christu!

Dear Alex,

once again you state the obvious. Do the Studites have a Third Order? I checked and they do not seem to have one. But if it is not there hopefully we can encourage them to form one.

Having just read the opening post of this thread I have these comments to offer.

First, the Cardinal says that the theological difficulties are insignificant if people want unity. Well, if that's true then Rome will drop all this Papal Infallibility stuff so we can get on with unity. I think the fact that this won't happen shows that for both sides these theological difficulties are very real.

He also seems to blame the curia and there may be too much bureaucracy there (don't know) BUT the Pope still insists on approving the election of bishops doesn't he? This is something that no Orthodox Patriarch is going to stand for. A Patriarch who can't even appoint his own bishops is no Patriarch at all.

And *IF* unity were to happen then why is it a crazy thought for the Patriarch of Moscow to have jurisdiction over most of what was the former USSR? If it were one church then what's the problem?

Dear Eric,

the reason that the ROC would not be put in charge of all Eastern Orthodox Churches is called the Rite of Religious Self Determination. And here is some news. The Russian MP has caused his own scism.
If he did not make a power play their would not be a UOC-KP. Hmm... kind of sounds like the Roman Pope. It seems each country likes to run their own Orthodox Church, have their own ethnic membership, and have the Divine Liturgy said in their own language. I believe this is what makes Orthodoxy so attractive.

Dear Folks, "third orders" are primarily a Latin designation. Anyone can be spiritually attached to a monastery by visiting, confessing to their spiritual father or some other trusted monk at the monastery, and materially supporting the monastery ($). In typical Byzantine fashion it's a much less formal and more organic way of attaching yourself to the monastery than studying constitutions on the third order, etc.

One can especially join them spiritually by praying the Horologion to the extent possible and practicable with the exegencies of daily life. An excellent start would be one of the Little Hours (1st, 3rd, 6th or 9th) or Small Compline.

One can also read the Studite Typicon, the Long Rules of St. Basil and the teachings of the Fathers in such works as the Philokalia and the Sayings of the Desert Fathers. Don't try to bite off too much at once. Pick one practice, esepcially saying an hour of the Horologion, and move on from there always under the guidance of your spiritual father.

http://members.truepath.com/Ben_Johnson/OrthObscurity.html

I don't know about this site, but this article is very interesting, it may be a personal opinion but it is interesting.

The next generations will be more open to the dialogue, the currenti generation of hierarchs are very influenced by political things and by the problems of communism and nationalism. Things will change.