www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Liturgies: East and West

Last night Father Loya, our Byzantine Catholic priest, led the second in a series on St. John Chrysostom's Divine Liturgy. A Roman Catholic priest was in attendance and shared in offering the liturgy. From 5-6 p.m. our priest and one of our deacons gave instruction and from 7-8:15 we all shared in the liturgy. It was a very good experience and is one way for the Latin Church to follow the instructions of Pope John Paul II in Lumen Oriental to learn from "the light of the East".

Is this type of experience happening elsewhere?

Dear Dan,

We run a college seminary at our monastery that has about 90 students preparing for the priesthood in the Latin church. As part of the Octave of Christian Unity we usually have an Eastern Catholic priest come to celebrate the Divine Liturgy in our abbey church. [unfortunately last year we didn't have a liturgy - with all the reprecussions of the shootings here it just didn't work out.] This along with our ecumenical prayer service is the highlight of the week.

At first these liturgies were more like demonstrations - sort of seeing the "exotic" worship of other Christians. But in the past few years, they are seen as less of a rarity and are looked forward to as an opportunity to enter into a very satisfying form of prayer. The students really get into it and I always enjoy them immensely. Before entering the Benedictines I would attend the Divine Liturgy at least once a month. Unfortunately I don't have that pleasure anymore.

PAX

Br. Elias

Dear Professor Dan,

We WOULD have that experience if there were Latin priests who could speak Ukrainian . . .

But I once had our university chaplain invite a UGCC priest for Liturgy at the university chapel.

Fr. Tannam of the Spiritan Fathers is a liturgist himself.

Afterwards, I actually heard complaints and criticisms from "the Latins" that the Liturgy was too long, too many "Lord have mercy's" etc.

I told Fr. Tannam and this Irish Catholic priest and missionary to Africa told me, "Alex, they wouldn't know liturgical sophistication if it . . ."

Alex

Alex,

I think one must be a Christian in order to tolerate being around the Lord for more than a few minutes. :rolleyes:

BTW Are there any examples of Orthodox and BC's sharing liturgy?

Dan L

Dear Dan:

This is in regard to your question about Orthodox and BC's sharing the liturgy.

In my humble experience, joint prayer by BC's and Orthodox in the holy hours, moleben' services and other non-sacrficial services is OK. For example, when my UGCC parish took refuge in the Orthodox Cathederal down the street in the late 60's, the blessing of the waters on Theophany was celebrated jointly.

Even joint administration of the sacriment of marriage is becoming more and more accepted.

However, a line is drawn where one hits the eucharistic liturgies of St. John Chrysostom and St. Basil the Great. While clergy have been present at each others' Divine Liturgies to be sure, I do not know of any examples where big-o Orthodox and big-c Catholic clergy have "joined forces" (so to speak) in eucharistic celebration.

Yours,

kl

Dan,

Glory to Jesus Christ !

It has happened in the past and it will happen in the future. Some of us refuse to be victimized by the sins of our ancestors. However those examples will not be posted publicly in an internet forum.

Joe Prokopchak
archsinner

Alex:

Have to chuckle about the comment concerning the Liturgy being too long. One of my Orthodox mentors during my university days once remarked to someone with the same complaint "if you can't stand being with Christ for an hour and a half, how are you going to make it for eternity?"

BOB

Joe:

I have to believe that it did happen under the persecution of the Communists.

And I have heard that such sharing happened in the camps run by the Nazis during WW2: seems that Catholic and Protestant clergy shared the Eucharist when all faced the possibility that their next one would be in eternity.

BOB

Twas almost true in my experience also. Back in the '80's I was the laughing stock to suggest that anyone would like something as ' archaic' as "Eastern Rite" on Campus.

Fortunately things have changed for the better and there is more openess among young people now.

Dear Professor Dan,

Yes, I know of numerous instances of Eucharistic participation between Orthodox and BC's.

I saw it in an OCA parish not too long ago.

The BC's were there all right - as catechumens.

Alex

When I was a member of St Thomas Byzantine Catholic parish in Gilbert, Arizona one of the mega Roman parishes (St Timothy's in Mesa, AZ, I believe) had their RCIA class visit us as part of their post-baptism experiences. Father would pause at various parts in the Liturgy and one of the cantors would read a brief explanation of what was going to happen next. There were always 20 to 30 people there who had just been baptized at the Easter Vigil a few weeks earlier (and sometimes guests from that parish). It was always interesting to hear their comments afterwards during Fellowship time. They all seemed to enjoy the experience.

I believe the class still visits every year.

David Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

Christ is in our Midst!

Our Lady of Fatima (Russian) BC Church in San Francisco either invites RCIA and CCD programs from neighboring R.C. churches to come visit for a talk and then Liturgy or a molieben. Next week a group of neophytes from 1.5 hours away is coming for talk/Liturgy. We also occasionally go and give talks at R.C. parishes, and have started a tradition of celebrating Liturgy at a certain R.C. parish once or twice a year on a Saturday. Also, next year we'll go to the R.C. parish for a Roman Mass for the feast of Sts. Peter and Paul.
Finally, we have a book and icon store that we take with us to R.C. parishes and archdiocesan events. We're starting to form a good relationship with some of the R.C. parishes. Now we just need to become better friends with the Orthodox in the area!

As I remember, the Russian Center in SF (circa late 80's-early 90's) when Father Steven Armstrong was pastor, there was always very good relations with the Orthodox clergy and people. Did something happen?? There were even incidences of ROCOR people visiting the Chapel!!! <Miracle of Miracles!!!>

I didn't mean to imply that we were on bad terms, simply that in the year that I've been attending OLF parish there hasn't been a working relationship with any Orthodox. Our recently retired deacon (he's now at O.L. Perpetual Help in Albuqurque)had good ties to the OCA since his twin brother is an OCA archpriest.

Our current pastor, Fr. Mark Ciccone, S.J., whether he does or does not have much of a relationship with any Orthodox, doesn't really have the time to put into forming new ones. He's very involved in the Jesuit formation house in Bezerkeley and so doesn't always have time to do much more than Liturgy and the administrative tasks on Sunday. Pray that we can soon get a full-time pastor, whether it is Fr. Mark or not.

BTW, the title Russian Catholic Center is one that we're trying to kill. As we see it, the Archdiocese of San Francisco established a parish of the Russian Catholic Church, not a center. The title Russian Center was one that was used by the founder of the parish as a revolt against the archbishop, because he didn't want a parish but the archbishop did. As far as we're concerned, we are a parish.

I believe the rule is as follows:A BC may recieve communion in an Orthodox church
but not vice versa.
Please correct me if Im wrong.