www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Is the Vatican destined to become like the Phanar?

Brian, I'm not sure where you read into my post that we should throw out parlimentarian democracy, but anyway... Reading my post for what it is, (the Englightenment as a beacon of secularism) I think it's clear that at the heart of the enlightement was a philosophical war against religion and the concept of faith in God, and especially against the church. Although some philosophers couched their language as "freedom of thought" and there was a more widespread acceptance of scientific enquiry, was it not Voltaire who said of the Catholic Church, "Ecraser l'infame!" (Crush the infamous thing!)?

Priest Thomas

Well, I wasn't suggesting Christians become "jihadists." In other words--as someone has suggested--Christians can learn from the Muslims the value of total commitment and fearlessness. The difference between us is one of priorities: geocentrism or theocentrism.

All of us travel the road that
God decrees for us to travel. That is best.

Abdur

delete

Whoops!

Dear Abdur,

>> (You see, I still think like a Muslim.)<<

Have I missed something. I know you said your family was both Muslim and Christian, does this mean you have made a complete conversion to the Chistian faith.

To answer your question. I pray that if that time would come, by God's grace and mercy, I would be more than willing to lay down my life for my God. I have no desire to live in this world without Him. Everything is for not without the love of Christ.

Oh most holy Theotokos, save us.
Rose

Dear Rose,

You didn't miss anything! I am a spiritual half-breed--from a Muslim-Orthodox family--and I still do have the temperament of a Muslim.

My mother raised us as Balkan Muslims--not to be confused with Arab Muslims-- and, as you know, mothers--whether we like it are not:)--are the spiritual masters of the household.

Like my friend, Nenad Knezevic, who is also of Muslim-Christian origins--and who just happens to be the Secretary of the Parish Council of the St.Mary's Anglican Church of Belgrade, Yugoslavia, the only Anglican community in all of Yugoslavia (couldn't resist the plug!)--I am not sure what you mean by "a complete conversion to the Christian faith," since I am not exactly sure what the "complete Christian faith," would look like. (I know: you will tell me I will find this completeness in Catholicism, whereas my Greek Orthodox darling of an aunt will tell me--as she has for at least thirty years--that I will find "completeness" in Orthodoxy.
Both of you can't be right, but both of you could be wrong. Puzzling.)

The one thing I am certain of is that Christ is my Savior and Lord, and I have been redeemed by His Blood. I also know that-- in some ways-- Islamic culture is superior to Christian culture and I certainly do not plan on impoverishing myself culturally and morally by rejecting all of my cultural past and replacing it with something artificial and second-rate. And I am very cognizant of the fact that retaining these cultural attributes will in no way detract from my personal commitment to the Way of our Lord; in fact, they will enhance that commitment for, like Paul and for the sake of the Gospel, I might become all things to all men.

I suppose my main perplexity is wrapped around the experiential fact that--compared to Islam--orthodox or mainstream Christianity is so bloody dull. The churches are a real disappointment and shrines to mediocrity.

"'Tis our burden and cross to bare...then the resurrection."

However, within the church catholic there is a place for every single soul. One just needs to keep looking!

"Nihil amori Christi praeponere."

Abdur

Dear Abdur,

Salaam Alekum!

I'm just wondering what it really means to say that one culture is superior to another.

In what ways? Is Christian culture synonymous with the Gospel of Christ? Is Islamic culture the way of life intended by Muhammad for his followers?

Or is culture a simple "hardening of the religious arteries" quite apart from the theology of the religions that had something to do with them?

Alex

Praise God Abdur!

This is what I wanted to know>>> The one thing I am certain of is that Christ is my Savior and Lord, and I have been redeemed by His Blood.<<<<

Excellent!
Rose

Dear Friends:

Going back to the original theme of this thread, the diplomatic corps of the Vatican appear to be alive and kicking.

To have a peek of what's happening in this field, please hasten to:

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=29919

Fears, and rumors, that the Vatican is going the way of the Phanar seems to me exaggerated.

AmdG

OK folk I give up !

I have been reading this thread and hoping for enlightenment - but you have all been concentrating so hard that I have not received it.

Do pray enlightem me

The Phanar - pray do tell - what is/was it ??

It is the Headquarters in Constantinople, of His All-Holiness Patriarch Bartholomeos I of Constantinople, New Rome. , The Ecumenical Patriarch.

Now try saying that 40 times fast )

Dear Angela:

... and where the Hagia Sophia is (desecrated by Ottoman rulers and by the Turkish government today by reducing it to a museum of sorts), arguably, many say, was the most beautiful Church/Cathedral in the entire Byzantine Empire (New Roman Empire)!

The Phanar, in which the See of Constantinople is located and home to the Ecumenical Patriarch of many (not all) Orthodox Churches.

As Brian says, it is THE Headquartes of the Patriarchate of Constantinople (as the Vatican/Rome is to Catholicism) but, sadly, without an "army" or "foot soldiers."

You see, the Turkish government allows only a small contingent of Orthodox hierarchs and the EP's Church is puny compared to the Hagia Sophia or to St. Peter's Basilica.

The tragedy of it all is that the State of
Turkey's admission to the European Union is pending but which has more than 90% chance of getting in, without regard to the plight of the Orthodox and their patrimony in Constantinople. (Turkey is already a member of NATO.)

AmdG

Dear Friends,

There is an interesting peculiarity at the Phanar where a particular door is always left open.

This is the door from which the Turks hung Patriarch Saint Gregory V and then threw his body into the Bosphorus . . .

It is never closed in his honour.

St Gregory's body was picked up by Ukrainians on a ship bound for Odessa.

It was deposited in the Church there and honoured locally until it was brought home, around the time of his canonization as a New Hieromartyr, to Athens where it is enshrined in the National Cathedral.

Alex

The gateway is actually sealed, and this factor is one which greatly infuriates militant Muslims -to they extent that it is attacked and graffitied.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

Bless me a sinner, Father Mark,

So the moral of the story is - never mind about Greeks bearing gifts?

Alex