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I once knew of a communion service in a Pentecostal church where they used a regional equivalent of Pepsi Cola (RC Cola) since they had some aversion to wine - apparently to grape juice as a forerunner of wine also, or so I was told. One of my friends told me about seeing some Pentecostal adults playing with toy cars during a church service, trying to be like children. The reason was that Christ said we needed to be like children to enter the kingdom of God. I am not making any of this up!!!
I suspect that agreement only applies to German Lutherans. The ELA and the Missiouri Synod are both in my area and they seldom agree on much. There is no central authority in Lutheranism that can dictate to the various groups.
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Not knowing for sure, but I highly doubt that it would be applied anywhere outside of Germany. As was already mentioned, there are three main bodies in the USA (Missouri Synod, Wisconson Synod, and the Evangelical Lutrheran church in the USA) and they are not allowed to commune with one another, so it seems rather doubtful that it would apply elsewhere.....but one never knows.
As for the Pepsi (or Royal Crown) cola communion...that is truly sad, I had heard of the same thing in some Latin churches in the 70s...... :rolleyes:
In His Name,
Stephen
In His Name,
Stephen
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Hey TN- and did they use Moon Pies with that RC? For a true Southern Rite communion service? That is right up there with some Penecostals I knew who used motor oil for anointing!
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This is not recognized as a valid baptism by the Catholic Church.
Neither, need I say, would "Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier". Actually, I tried to understand the purpose of baptism, and came to the conclusion that baptism is the Christian love being imposed through certain individuals, (with the help of the Holy Spirit of course), towards the person being baptized. If the intent is true, then what does it matter how it is performed. As for the Holy Trinity being called, "Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier", it is a nice explanation of the Three Persons. Zenovia
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No Zenovia, it is not; Jesus Christ revealed that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit; the other alternatives are human constructs and do not reveal this...
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No Zenovia, it is not; Jesus Christ revealed that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit; the other alternatives
are human constructs and do not reveal this... Semantics, semantics, semantics. Actually, if the words 'Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier are being used for the wrong purpose,and being imposed on parishioners that have been raised and taught that the Holy Trinity consists of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, then shame on them and their sinful pride. But no matter how you analyze it, the Father is the Creator, the Son is the Reedemer, and the Holy Spirit is the Sanctifier. Mind you I am not in agreement with the use of the words because of the intent. It is nice though for people to be aware of what is meant when we say Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. Zenovia
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Originally posted by byzanTN:
a regional equivalent of Pepsi Cola (RC Cola) Charles, I hate to take a thread off on a tangent but RC is not regional - at least it has never been hard to find in New England. It is the only cola that tastes better than Pepsi and has a subtle caffeine kick :rolleyes:  that makes the rest of them seem like milk. Many years, Neil, who is going to go get some RC, because he hasn't had it in quite a while 
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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No, Zenovia, it is not just "semantics", people use "Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier" because they do not want to use the terms "Father" and "Son", as they consider these "sexist". No one is saying that the Father is not the Creator, or the Son the Redeemer or the Spirit the Sanctifier, only that they are revealed by Christ as Father Son and Holy Spirit, and that He instructed us to baptize using those divinely revealed names. The Church would be unfaithful if other formulas were accepted.
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Dear Iconophile/Daniel, I believe that you and Zenovia are actually in agreement, if you read her post clearly. The explanations are good,(as in good/useful for catechisis), but they are definitely NOT a substitute for the original Trinitarian formula. I think that these explanations are objectionable to most of us, only in that they are being used as politically correct substitutions...and political/sexist correctness in Christianity is definitely nothing short of being ridiculous.  In Christ our Lord, Alice
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Originally posted by Irish Melkite: Originally posted by byzanTN:
[b] a regional equivalent of Pepsi Cola (RC Cola)
I hate to take a thread off on a tangent but
RC is not regional - at least it has never been hard to find in New England. It is the only cola that tastes better than Pepsi and has a subtle caffeine kick :rolleyes: that makes the rest of them seem like milk.
Many years,
Neil, who is going to go get some RC, because he hasn't had it in quite a while [/b]I didn't realize RC was available in New England. I thought it similar to "Dr. Enuff" which is a regional drink. I know that RC was, at one time, a smaller company than Coke or Pepsi, and probably still is if it hasn't been absorbed by some conglomerate. I like it better than either of the two other colas.
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Originally posted by iconophile:
Hey TN- and did they use Moon Pies with that RC? For a true Southern Rite communion service? That is right up there with some Penecostals I knew who used motor oil for anointing! No Moon Pies. They had some problem with wine, of course, but the problem extended to grape juice, too. I didn't really understand it. These were genuine, Holy Roller Pentecostals. I don't know if this congregation's beliefs were shared by the denomination.
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Here's the RC brand history. It was my favorite, too. http://www.dpsu.com/rc.html
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posted by theophan:
The reason that I asked about this agreement being applied to all Lutheran groups around
the world is that there may be some variety in practice, at least in some places, among
Lutherans. Dear Theophan, I believe all Protestant denominations have split into two parts. One half seems to remain conservative and I 'believe' call themselves Evangelical. But then again, my experience has shown me that some of us Orthodox have a conservative and liberal faction also, as does the RC, (the faith, not the cola) I am not that knowledgable in matters that pertain to the Protestant church's. If someone does know, and can clarify these things for me, I would appreciate it. Zenovia
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Dear All,
Interesting you should mention baptizing with the formula "Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier", this topic was discussed in the diaconate class I taught this weekend. The chief reason that this wording is forbidden in the Catholic Church is because it smacks of the heresy of modalism . This false teaching posited that there is only one God who was a monad (single) and not a communion. It further asserted that the "persons" of the Blessed Trinity are merely external manifestations of God for human benefit and NOT intrinsic to the inner life of the Godhead.
While it is true that in the order of salvation the Father is Creator, the Son is Redeemer, and the Holy Spirit is Sanctifier - it is equally true that the Father redeems and sanctifies, the Son and Spirit were present and agents of creation, etc. In other words, all three persons of the Blessed Trinity are in relationship with one another and work together. They can not be distilled into impersonal functions.
PAX
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