www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Protestants and Orthodox Laud Agreement in Germany on Baptism

Dear Brother,

Thank you so much for your very informative post!

God bless you,
Alice

Thank you for the post.

I understand now why one cannot be baptized in the name, Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier, for they are merely expressions of our Lord: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, rather than the Triune God-head itself.

...And to go further, can that which is born of self elevation and pride, (feminist movement), not turn into a heresy?

Zenovia

As far as baptizing with the formula creator, redeemer and sanctifier it should be pointed out that these are properly titles attributed to the three persons but they are not names. We are commanded to baptize in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. These are proper names not titles.

That is why we argue that the Father is not the Son or the SPirit, the Son is not the Spirit or the Father and the SPirit is not the Father or the Son. The same cannot be said for the titles creator, redeemer and sanctifier.

It is true that the Father is the Creator. But so is the Son and so is the Spirit. The Son is the Redeemer but so is the Father and Spirit. The Spirit is the sanctifier but so is the Father and the Son. To confuse these titles with the Name of the most holy Trinity is blatant heresy.

Jason B.

Zenovia,

I think, in the case of your example, it has...just look at the Bibles being published that have omitted any reference to God the FATHER...chosing a gender-neutral name for Him, among other atrocities, certainly counts as a heresy, although, I do not believe it has be formally named as such by any Synod, so some will point out that unless it has been established as a heresy, formally, it is not one, but, I think if the subject happens to come up, it will be declared as such. If anyone knows of a condemnation of these re-writes, on a hierachical level, I would be interested in reading it.

Gaudior, who thinks that definitely qualifies, but who isn't qualified to vote on the subject

Dear Gaudior,

I don't believe that changing the names, Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, qualifies as a heresy...yet! It is though a 'spirit' of dessension, born of pride and self elevation, and will eventually lead to heresy.

We see it today in the main stream Protestant faiths, and how far they have strayed. That too came about through a 'spirit' of dissension, and in time that dissent continued through various people when they threw out the sacraments, saints, traditions, etc. Today, many of these denominations have fallen into heresy.

I do believe though, that our Lord allowed the Protestant movement, because at that time the people in Northern Europe needed to be reinvigorated in their Christian faith and beliefs.

Of course it was a harsh move, or rather 'allowance' on the part of our Lord. I once came across a historian, that stated that only sixteen thousand people were left in Germany after the religious wars.

But we need not go further than our past hundred year's experiences in Eastern Europe. How many millions of people died... evil and good alike.

I only hope that our Lord has not turned His Face from us, and that His Holy Spirit will enlighten us to make the right decision in this election.

Zenovia