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Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear OOD,
When I converted to Orthodoxy 16 years ago, like many converts, I wanted to be the "super orthodox" believer. Although I had entered into Orthodoxy under a "canonical" Orthodox jurisdiction, I read and studied much of the information that you have presented and affliliated with an old calendar jurisdiction for a while to become more Orthodox. Sadly, I found that the group that I was a member of and the other groups that I observed were full of anger and judgement. They lacked the love that I found in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

As I studied the early church fathers, I found their message to be quite different from the message I was hearing in the multiple small old calendar orthodox churches. The message of the early church fathers , their Message of Love for their fellow man was evident. Their witness of love was the sign that attracted millions to the Orthodox Church. I did not find these in the myriad of small old calendar orthodox groups who spend more time attacking each other and Patriarchal Orthodoxy than spreading the joyful news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I began to study the talks the messages of the historical patriarchs and their successors. I have found that they represent clearly the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ---"Love one another" , "Judge not lest ye be judged". I returned to the Historic Orthodox Church organized under the leadership of Right-believing Patriarchs.

I am but a poor sinner and the least of sinners, and I do not mean to judge you,[as your Bishops felt it necessary to let thier visitors know of their "Heresy"] I do feel that I must spread the Good News of Jesus Christ and his Love, his desire for unity in the One Holy Orthodox and Catholic Church. I find that the parameters established by the Historical Orthodox patriarchates meet the standard of not compromising Orthodox Belief but rather bringing knowledge of the Holy Orthodox faith to others through communicating Truth and Love.

I do not look for double talk in the Patriarchs and Right believing Bishops and look to find error, rather I look to their obedience to the the Teachings of the early Church and their testimony of the Holy Trinity, Our God. I pray that the Lord bless you as he has me in our common struggle to understand the Truth that is Orthodoxy. I have chosen the Historic Orthodox Church which the Lord Jesus has blessed us with down to our present times with Right Believing Bishops and Patriarchs. I accept the current Patriarchs struggle as they maintain their special charism of interpreting Orthodox Teachings and Dogma to our modern world.

May the Holy Spirit illumine the Universe and the Peace of Christ be with us always!

Your brother in Christ,
Thomas

[ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: Thomas ]

Dear Dr. John,

So you're saying you are not an Old Calendarist ?

Blessings y'all!!!

Alex

Vito, thanks.

---------------

Thomas,

We are shifting the topic now to say that "Old Calendar" churches are filled with hate? That is a typical reaction but very untrue. Those who are bearers of the Holy Tradition, which they have not simply learned, but have lived, having had its living experience. Christians live in the Tradition as in an element, as fish live in water.

That living Tradition has never been disrupted, because the very mouth of Christ promised the Church that "the gates of Hades shall not prevail against her", and the mouth of God does not lie. Those who search to find the Tradition of the Christian Church of the first centuries or of the centuries before the schism in order to follow it confess that they have lost the continuity of Tradition. But they are not going to find it no matter how much they push forward their researches, because the Tradition is something living and transmitted as life from the living to the living. It is not something which is discovered through scholarly studies, nor is it something which is learned intellectually.

So Thomas, if you find any Church filled with hatred, run, don't walk, because they have lost everything.

And we are now saying that the Holy Fathers tolerated error? In all of your studies, please cite some examples.

------------------

Dr. John,

I agree with some of the essense of what you are saying. In ways we all fail to follow the image of Christ, oh how hard it is to forsake the world and pick up our cross. But I diverge and insist that true doctrine is by itself an article of love; and without true doctrine we are nothing but Protestants.

The struggle to maintain true doctrine was handed down to the apostles from our Lord Himself, who did not tolerate false doctrine and warned us to avoid those who did. People are often more afraid of characterizations which diminish their honor and reputation than of the persecutor's sword. Very few are those who can accept the sacrifice of being considered "uncanonical". But in today's world it is inevitable that every true Christian will be characterized as a fool, or at least narrow-minded. Very few have the courage to advance with such a prospect which approaches martyrdom (and I'm not saying I do). That is why most people prefer the easy way of compromises, and they preach it with fanaticism.

[ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: OrthodoxyOrDeath ]

A WORD OF WARNING TO THE ORTHODOX
Love works both ways.

To label all Old Calendarists as unloving fanatics is also an unloving act. Considering their small numbers they, at least, should be commended for their strong devotion to monasticism and their courage under persecution.

They are the Old Believers of our age, with all the good and bad qualities of their traditionalist Russian forebears.

A WARNING TO CHRISTIANS OF THE WEST
Concerning "Super-Correctness''
By Bishop [now Metropolitan] Cyprian of Oropos and Fili
Church of the True Orthodox Christians of Greece
["Synod in Resistance"]

For over fifty years the Orthodox Old Calendarists of Greece have fought a courageous battle, in the face of sometimes fierce persecution, for the preservation of genuine Orthodoxy against modernism and ecumenism. Unfortunately, their witness has to some extent been undermined by the presence among them of extreme views which have caused unnecessary schisms. In the end, this extremism has only aided the cause of modernism, which rejoices at every division among those of traditional views. This "temptation from the right side" is now making itself felt in America and the Western world in the form of new schisms, over hasty accusations of "heresy" and "betrayal", and the spread of the spirit of suspicion towards everyone not of one's own "party". The present warning, in the form of a letter to Saint Herman Brotherhood from one of the most respected leaders of the Old-Calendarist movement in Greece, is a most timely one. Bishop Cyprian is also Abbot of the Monastery of Sts. Cyprian and Justina in Fili, near Athens (on which see The Orthodox Word, 1976, no. 70).

YOU HAVE WRITTEN asking me to put together a few words describing the dangers of the temptation of a "super-correctness" in questions of Orthodox faith and practice, and the damage it has caused to the Greek Church in our days. This you would like as a warning to those in America who are troubled by this same temptation, and you would like them to benefit from our experience here. Very gladly, therefore, we will attempt to do this, emphasizing from the beginning that we have no wish to criticize persons, but rather the mentality of extremism, the danger of temptation "from the right."

We must begin with a few words on our confession of faith: the Orthodox Church is deeply wounded by the heresy of ecumenism, the betrayal of the hierarchy in some communist lands, the abandonment of every vestige of Orthodox piety in some parts of the Diaspora. We have no doubt that the leaders of the ecumenical movement, in fully equating Orthodoxy with heresy, have fallen away from the Church. With such, and those who commune with them, we can have no communion at all, nor can we regard them any longer as Orthodox, but wolves, all too often in the sheep's clothing of Patriarch's and bishops. Every witness of the Fathers confirms that economy in matters of heresy constitutes betrayal. We regard the new calendar as the first step in the ecumenical movement, and thus can have no communion with new calendarists.

From the above, two questions arise: firstly, have all those with whom we have severed communion fallen into heresy, and placed themselves outside the Church? Secondly, if they have not, what justification do we have in cutting off prayerful relations with them? Both these questions require much thought. Insofar as the ecumenists are concerned, one can discern three categories:

(1) Those who wholly equate Orthodoxy with heresy, and thus voluntarily place themselves outside the Church in some sort of vague "superchurch."

(2) Those who, while they in no way negate their Orthodoxy, nonetheless take part in joint prayer with heretics in transgression of the canons. We may perhaps call them anti-canonical rather than openly heretical.

(3) Those who, while they disagree to a greater or lesser extent with ecumenism, commune with the ecumenists, perhaps considering that they do so using economy.

We, pursuing the purity of the faith, can have no communion of prayer with the clergy who belong to these categories. But the vexed questions are: how are we to treat their flock? What degree of economy is permissible in our dealings with them? Which of the above clergy have definitely lost the grace of the priesthood through their apostasy? It is much the same questions, so far as we know, which wracked the Catacomb Church in Russia in its early years (and perhaps now), and it is disputes over these questions which have caused the greatest troubles amongst the Old-Calendarists of Greece.

These troubles we will summarize very briefly: in 1935, three bishops of the new calendar Church of Greece returned to the observance of the old calendar, and immediately consecrated four new bishops. The subsequent history of these does not concern us here, except for one; he, Bishop Matthew, a man of great personal virtues but extremist temperament, in 1937 separated himself from the other hierarchs, forming a schism which exists to the present day. The reason for his action was that the senior bishop, Metropolitan Chrysostomos, was asked in an interview if he considered that the State Church had lost the Grace of the Sacraments in accepting the calendar innovation. He replied no, only a future council could condemn the new-calendarists as definitely outside the Church; what we know is that they are seriously guilty before the Church, its canons and traditions, and therefore we can have no communion with them until such time as they return to the traditions and discipline of the Church. This truly Orthodox ecclesiology, which can be paralleled particularly in St. Theodore the Studite, met with incomprehension on both sides. Both the new-calendarists and a section of the old-calendarists condemned him as illogical: if they have grace, what justification exists for separation from them? As noted above, one of the newly-consecrated bishops departed and formed a schism which exists to the present day. We can only see this as a fruit of the mentality of over-correctness,"of a neglect of the economy which the Church requires to use for the salvation of souls. The damage caused to the Greek Church is immeasurable, for had this division not occurred, the State Church of Greece would long have been obliged to return to the old calendar.

We can cite other examples of this "overcorrectness" from our own experience. A fearful example is the following: A few years ago a woman, unfortunately a nun, reading through the works of St. Nectarios, the great wonderworker of our times, came across a few passages which she considered as not in accord with Orthodox teaching. A discerning mind would see in these passages the influence primarily of the westernized theological training which the Saint received, and of the historian Paparigopoulos (from whose book the passages are taken almost directly), and certainly no intentional contradiction of Orthodox teaching. The unfortunate nun, however, proceeded to write three books denouncing St. Nectarios as a "heretic, iconoclast, ecumenist, and Latin." Simple people were influenced, many souls were wounded and scandalized. This fanatical mentality, as so often, had seized a detail while ignoring the whole�the exemplary and holy life of St. Nectarios and his innumerable miracles.

Another example is provided for us by a group of persons who have severed all communion with all the Orthodox in Greece because the hierarchs will not officially condemn as heretical the western-style icon of the Holy Trinity (with God the Father represented as an old man, and the Holy Spirit as a dove). Neglecting everything else, they have seized on this detail, and have been led into schism. Their struggle for the removal of this iconic type has become an obsession, a prelest.
We should, however, in fairness point out that these disputes have often been made much worse by the opponents taking an equally fanatical position. Discretion is needed on both sides. It is also true that extremism amongst the old-calendarists has been fostered by the savage persecutions which the State Church has launched from time to time.

One of the most disastrous examples of the phenomenon of which we are speaking is the disputes between the zealots of the Holy Mountain. Many, to be sure, are clearminded and sure of their purpose, but others waste so much time in useless disputes. In one and the same skete, one can find in each house a different ecclesiology, a different mentality, and not one in communion with their neighbors. They have seized on details, and all too often, in their lack of theological education, have seized on them quite incorrectly. Often their opinions are rational, but taken to extremes; others, however, become very strange; one group believes that the name of Jesus shares in His Divinity, and that all who do not so believe are heretics; another, that those who practice frequent Holy Communion are heretics and excommunicate; another has reached the old-believer position that the grace of the priesthood has vanished from the Church; and so forth. We must emphasize again that we have no wish to criticize persons; many have a holiness which we never dare hope to attain. We only criticize that mentality which leads to division and schism.

Now, to return to the questions mentioned at the beginning, we would like to relate something which we observed recently. A few months ago I visited Romania, and in one of the celebrated historical monasteries (belonging, naturally, to the official Church of Romania), was very kindly received by the Abbot, a man of evident spiritual qualities and considerable education. He began to speak enthusiastically about the ecumenical movement and the reunion of the "churches." To this I replied with such words as God enlightened me with, and I observed from his reaction that he had never before heard a point of view opposed to ecumenism. After the meeting, he told the Romanian bishop who was accompanying us that he had been much edified by the conversation. This gave me occasion for thought: it would be easy to condemn him immediately as an ecumenist and a heretic. But this was not the case; despite his education, he had never given the matter deep thought (though certainly he should have done so), he had never heard any criticism of ecumenism, it had never occurred to him that it was a denial of Orthodoxy. To place him in the same category as, let us say, Meliton of Chalcedon, would be quite unjust. Perhaps it would be fair to use the same criteria to judge the faithful in the Soviet Union, who, with few exceptions, are obliged to have recourse to the Moscow Patriarchate, or the many faithful in outlying parts of Greece who have no conception of the calendar question. For every category we must use discretion; it is impossible in all cases to apply the same strictness, while on the other hand, we must remember that economy used as a measure in itself becomes an abuse, and that in matters of real heresy there can be no use of economy.


In conclusion, we would say that the error of "over-correctness" is a form of prelest, and like the other forms, this means a blindness, an obsession. The Fathers say that prelest begins with self-reliance, and so it is: whilst pursuing some probably very laudable particular end, the general picture becomes forgotten, there sets in a hardening of mind and heart which results in dispute and fanaticism. The history of the Church provides us with many examples, and most obviously, the old believers of Russia.
We hope that these few words may help your American readers in the understanding of the mature Orthodoxy which your publications always seek to put forth.
This article originally appeared in The Orthodox Word, July-August 1980 (93), 164ff.

[ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: Free Greek ]

Are we now changing the subject yet again to say I am being "over correct"? Well, even this artcle is anti-ecumenical and is only examining on how we should conduct ourselves to resist, and is for the most part pretty good. The pitfalls of Satan are everywhere.

It is very easy to react so strongly against something that you change exactly what you are defending.

An example is some Orthodox today who claim Mary sinned. This is for the most part a reaction against IC.

There are plenty of things in our own Synod we could do to be more correct (eg. get rid of all the chairs) but for the most part are not overly concerned, we simply do as we have always done while protecting the flock as best as we can.

(And we have one of those western-style icon's of the Holy Trinity ) I don't care for it, personally but oh well.

[ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: OrthodoxyOrDeath ]

Dear OOD,

Your point on the Immaculate Conception and Orthodox is very well taken.

I just LOVE the Most Holy Theotokos, the All-Holy! Don't you?

Alex

Alex,

According to St. John Chrysostom, the demons have the ability to conduct their activities within the congregation during the Divine Liturgy, albeit at a handicapped level, but when the priest says: "Commemorating our most Holy Theotokos and...", the demons flee.

They cannot stand her name because she defeated them.

[ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: OrthodoxyOrDeath ]

Dear OOD,

This excellent point is repeated by a Roman Catholic saint, Louis de Montfort, who, in his writings, says that the devils cannot put up with someone who invokes the Most Holy Theotokos - it just upsets them, that's all . . .

I have a picture of the Icon of Tinos. Is it just me, or is the image rather worn?

Also, is there a shrine to the Theotokos in Greece where the miracle of the snakes occurs annually?

Alex

I only wish I could have the uncompromising faith of the Old Calendarists, which is the faith of the Three Hierachs, as well as that of St.Photios and St.Mark of Ephesus, among many other glorious Orthodox saints. Relativism, which is the cancer of modernist Orthodoxy, was unknown to these great men and women of God and Orthodoxy. But it is difficult to break free of its insidious captivity.

Yet, with God all things are possible.

"Ask, and you shall receive. Knock, and it shall be opened unto you.?"

FG

I'm not aware of any miracle involving snakes, I would think anything involving snakes would be suspect...but that's just my initial peception.

Dear FG,

Faith is never something we can "have."

It is something we ask for in prayer.

If you would like such faith, ask for it, and you will receive this gift surely.

OOD, am I a good fellow, or what?

Alex

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Dear Free Greek,

Para-kalo!

Alex

O Tino mou...O Megalohari mou...!

http://users.hol.gr/~lamp/hist_en.htm

Dear FG,

Well, how about:

"Right back at y'a, Big Guy!"

Alex