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Why cant I take the Eucarist in the Greek Orthodox Church? I am a Byzantine Catholic and dont understand. Greek Orthodox recieve the Eucarist in my church.

Because there is no full unity of Faith between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox CHurch. The Catholic Church also instructs Orthodox who attend Catholic liturgies in the Byzantine or the Latin Rite to follow the canons of their Church regarding intercommunion

In other words, Greek Orthodox believers should not be communing in Byzantine Catholic churches according to Latin Catholic, Byzantine Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox teachings!

Finally, everyone agrees on something!

In Christ,
Andrew

No, Andrew, we do not agree.

The statement issued by the then National Conference of Catholic Bishops (now called the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops) in the mid to late 1990�s included the following statement:

�Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are urged to respect the discipline of their own Churches. According to Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of communion by Christians of these Churches (canon 844 � 3).�

The canons referenced are from the Latin Code. I remember watching the proceedings of the bishops� conference that produced this statement. They were very careful to note that Christians of the referenced Churches should follow the disciplines of their own Church but that there was no prohibition against Eucharistic sharing from the Catholic Church. The discussion began by noting that there were already a large number of Christians from these Churches who have been partaking of Communion in Catholic Churches. This makes sense since in mixed Roman Catholic � Orthodox/Assyrian/PNCC (and even Byzantine Catholic) marriages the likelihood is very high that the couple will choose to worship and raise their children in the Roman Catholic Church.

I have also seen something in which a Greek Orthodox bishop (GOA) noted that more American born Greek Orthodox (who were baptized in GOA parishes) worship outside the GOA (most often in RC Churches) and that the vast majority of Orthodox/Catholic and Orthodox/Protestant marriages end up in either Catholic or Protestant Churches (and that this was primarily because the Greek Orthodox Church is primarily viewed as an ethnic Church (even by Greek-Americans)). There are approximately 2 million Americans of Greek ethnicity in the United States. The number of practicing Greek Orthodox (meaning attending services at least once a year) is put at about 440,000 in a recent survey.

And the priest prays every week "for the ignorance of the people."

Andrew

And we are indeed back to the original starting point: The Catholic Communion of Churches accepts the Orthodox as members of that communion. The Orthodox do not. Ergo, we are not in communion.

I'm not elated by this fact, but it is the ecclesiological reality.

With love in Christ,
Andrew

Dear Reader Andrew,

Interesting point on ignorance!

In the RC confessional, when a priest has determined someone is "invincibly ignorant" he can absolve him or her on that basis, since he cannot convince them otherwise.

Alex

I guess I always viewed the NCCB statement more as an ecumenical overture than anything else. Certainly the issue of born Orthodox who are receiving sacraments in the churches of the Catholic communion is a pastoral matter for those churches, but as I think we all know, the number of Protestants who receive communion in those churches is substantially higher than the number of born Orthodox who do so, simply by virtue of the demographic situation here. I think that virtually every one of these persons knows well that the churches of the Catholic communion do not approve of this practice, but they take their own "open communion" mentality with them. There isn't much to be done about this pastorally, as "protecting the chalice" simply isn't feasible at all in the typical RC megaparish. As for the Orthodox who are partaking in the churches of the Catholic communion, I think that most of these (although we also have our catechetical problems) are more or less aware that this is not permissible per the churches of the Orthodox communion, but they've already more or less left that communion anyway by choosing to worship (often with their non-Orthodox spouse) in a church outside that communion -- and in many of these cases to marry in a church outside the Orthodox communion --, so I'm not sure that the NCCB statement added much in these cases -- perhaps a little more of a clarification of the position, while at the same time making an important ecclesiological statement and ecumenical gesture.

This is even more so the case due to the fact that the NCCB advised non-Catholics to respect the discipline of their own churches -- because of course the authors knew what this discipline was. So in essence what they were saying was (1) we don't have an issue with you communicating here but (2) please observe your own discipline (which, btw, we know doesn't allow you to do so) ... in a way it was waying "you can communicate here if you wish, but you really shouldn't because of the discipline of your own churches, not because of our own discipline". So I think Andrew's point is fair, if not completely accurate. I think that all sides would agree that Orthodox *ought* not communicate in the churches of the Catholic communion. Where the difference arises relates to whether they *may* do so, and what the impact of that action might be.

Brendan

Brendan

Dear Brendan, Brendan

As you know, we have Orthodox who communicate regularly and this seems to be widespread among those Orthodox of the "Fourth Ukrainian Immigration."

Most of them never heard of "St Josaphat" either and send their kids to the school dedicated to that "soul-snatcher . . ."

I've had discussions about the differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy with them, and they seem not to appreciate most of them.

When I ask them what THEY think is the difference, they consider it and then say, "In our Orthodox Churches at home, there is a greater sense of reverence and piety than here."

As good a difference as any, don't you think?

Alex

Thanks Alex,

Now I know why my confessor was so quick to absolve me. He probably realized that at heart, I'm "invincibly ignorant."

Andrew

Dear Reader Andrew,

Well, that's much better than being hopeless, as in my case!

Are epitimias imposed in the Orthodox Church nowadays?

Alex

This we agree on.

Dear djs,

I'm not sure that the Catholic Church accepts the Orthodox as members of its own Communion - am I wrong?

With respect to the Eucharist, it is just that the Catholic Communion allows for Orthodox and anyone else who has the same belief about the Eucharist as it does to Communion under certain circumstances, as the Pope recently did with British PM Tony Blair.

The Catholic Church accepts all Christians as being incorporated into the Body of Christ that is the Church, but with the proviso that only the Catholic Churches in communion with Rome are the most "perfectly incorporated" with all others sharing different, but lesser, degrees of incorporation.

Alex

Dear djs,

I apologize for initially overstating our basis of agreement.

I think that Alex has a sharp knife and just divided "the word of truth" on this matter in his most recent post above.

Incidentally, I find it preposterous to think that the Holy Father, Pope of Rome would commune PM Tonmy Blair. I accept that it happened, but it points to startlingly different attitudes toward ecclesiology in East and West that only serve to contuinue our schism!

Truly He is Risen!
Andrew