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Dec 29th, 2019
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Dear Shawn,
I know a wonderful Scottish Roman Catholic lady who believes that the Roman Catholic Church is the Church founded by our Lord and the Apostles (as is).
All our "rites" etc. fall short of the mark - and they can commemorate the Pope all they like.
And she was a former Catholic school principal . . .
Alex She must come from the tuff side of Glasgow. 
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Originally posted by Shawn:
As for the Irish example, keep in mind the persecution of the English that they have languished under. To them, it isn't hard to understand how the non-celibate cleric would seem suspiciously like the Anglican Church which hadn't done them much in the way of favour and represented an overlord English state and aristocracy which persecuted Catholics. Certainly the plantation experience was formative in the consciousness of the Irish clergy and laity. I think this was more important in the efforts of the Irish to wield power in the American hierarchy though once in this country more than anything else after being disenfranchised for so long. I think there were a variety of factors that led to the regrettable treatment of the Eastern Catholics in this country such as the terrible treatment of St. Alexis by Archbishop Ireland. I don�t know if they could be ranked in importance, but a few things come to mind. One is probably simply ignorance of the customs, patrimony and ultimately the legitimacy of the Eastern Churches. The American hierarchy may have viewed them as suspect at best, and schismatic at worst. It was a time of intense anti-Catholic persecution in this country and I think the Irish hierarchy was very sensitive to shaping a model of the church as they saw it. I don�t think they saw a need or had a desire to foster any type of diversity that might confuse Protestants or their own flock. Perhaps one other factor may simply have been the nature of Irish Catholicism itself. It was famous for its rigid moral theology, often described as puritanical by its detractors. It was also deeply influenced by continental Jansenism. The founder of the Irish College in Louvain, Archbishop Florence Conry (also the publisher of the Irish Catechism), was an acquaintance of Jansenius. I think this background would have made Irish clergy particularly hostile to married clergy, and may have led to things like the interrogations mentioned in this thread. Andrew (3/4 Irish)
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I have met a few who just don't get it.... One of them still thinks I have gone Orthodox. Maybe I will make a teeshirt: 24 Rites don't make it wrong. Or I breathing with the Other Lung now. 
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Dear John, I was in the company of an Orthodox Christian and we were speaking with an RC friend. The RC fellow knew about Orthodoxy - but he had no idea what an "EC" was . . . My Orthodox friend refused to help me explain it and was silent. After some explaining, the RC fellow turned to me and said, "Ah, so you are Orthodox! AND you commemorate the Pope!" "Don't all true Orthodox?" I replied, looking over to my silent Orthodox friend . . . Alex
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Dear John: 24 Rites don't make it wrong. Or I [am] breathing with the Other Lung now. NO, there are fewer Rites and only 23 Churches thus far! You will be gasping for air if you breathe with only the OTHER lung. JP2 said we have to breathe with BOTH lungs! Amado
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Armando...
I am feeling punchy today...
How bout a teeshirt that says:
I breath with Both Lungs
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic: After some explaining, the RC fellow turned to me and said, "Ah, so you are Orthodox! AND you commemorate the Pope!"
"Don't all true Orthodox?" I replied, looking over to my silent Orthodox friend . . . Certainly. It just depends which Pope you're talking about.
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Thanks everyone. It is at least somewhat comforting to know that this isn't unheard of. I have a small booklet called "Eastern-Rite Catholicism: Its Heritage and Vocation" by Robert F. Taft, S.J. published by the John XXIII Center in 1963 ... I know it's old, but it is really good. And there is a wonderful paragraph in the book: But in our modern world, gradually evolving toward a unified secular culture dominated by Western technology, is there any significant place left for our Eastern Rites, ancient and venerable to be sure, but perhaps passe? Are they a truly relavent part of our heritage as Catholics in this modern world? The Popes have certainly thought so. They have repeated time and again that not only are the Eastern Rites of great beauty and value for their own members, but that, together with the Western Rites, they manifest the glory of God's Church and provide Western Catholics with a deeper appreciation of their own traditions. In fact we can add taht the Catholic whose idea of Catholicism is limited to his own particular tradition has a distorted notion of the true nature of his Church. I am leaning toward believing that much of the attitude of my "friend" has more to do with her ignorance and her own insecurities. But again - At least I really sat down and thought about why we are doing this and now I have a clearer understanding of my own motives. Carole
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Originally posted by John Gibson:
How bout a teeshirt that says:
I breath with Both Lungs My personal favorite is "Official Kamilavka Inspector".
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Dear Andrew, I wasn't talking about Pope Shenouda! Alex
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Me neither.
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Oh, so both of you were talking about "Pope Michael I," fka David Bawden, who was elected on July 16, 1990 by the "One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic [Alex] Roman Church" ending an almost "32 year long interegnum."
Good for you! :p
Amado
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Originally posted by Amadeus:
Oh, so both of you were talking about "Pope Michael I," fka David Bawden, who was elected on July 16, 1990 by the "One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic [Alex] Roman Church" ending an almost "32 year long interegnum."
Good for you! :p
Amado The best part is that for those of us who are procrastinators, perpetually late or just simply lazy can still get "Will the Catholic Church Survive the 20th Century" from Pope Michael. Andrew
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Orthodox domilsean Member
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What I've never been able to understand is how the Irish could have been "scandalized" by married priests? Ireland had the tradition (semi-illegally) until at least the 16th century!
I guess a few hundred years of hard-core English oppression will change anyone.
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Forum Keilbasa Sleuth Member
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I keep wanting to post.. but I write and then clear and not post.
I have so many stories to share, but once you educate it helps slow the confusion down about what a Byzantine/Ukie Catholic is.
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