Originally posted by byzanTN:
Some days I think Purgatory is where I am now, not something for the next life. 
OK, just kidding, it's never really that bad. 
This thought is actually very profound.
Since the name Purgatory - is the name of the doctrine - and the doctrine describes an action that God does to us (purgation from the effects of sin) - we can voluntarily cooperate with this action - while yet still alive (resulting in what the doctors of the church call the mystical marriage) - or - if we do not voluntarily cooperate here and now - it will be forced upon us (involuntarily) at dead.
My own sadness is that most Christians have completely forgotten (or where never told) that this purgation should - take place here. How Jesus works in us here and now - is an almost forgotten things. And so many Christians have been fooled into - apathy - thinking that since no real union with God is available here - we must wait till we die and count on mercy at the judgment.
Faith - has become - holding onto the belief that when we die Jesus will grant us his mercy and we shall attain heaven. The human ability to have faith - has become the key to heaven. And that is NOT the way it works. What was once simple has become complicated - and that should not have happened.
Faith (as Jesus meant it) has now become - faith in the human ability to have - faith - despite the odds.
The ability to have faith - has become a type of magic - which Jesus will reward us for at the end of this hard life. And the more strong our faith (against the odds) the larger our reward - at the end - through his mercy.
Now - doesn�t that about sound right?
But my refined - THAT is a misunderstanding.
Let me put it this way. If you have a math teacher who knew the subject of math - and you went to his class and he began to teach - if you had no faith in him - you would get up and walk out of his class. Your lack of faith - has prevented you from learning what he had to teach you. On the other hand, if you sat in his class and put just a bit of faith in the teacher - you will stay there and because you stayed there - you would eventual find that he knew what he was talking about - and you would learn from him.
Now - your human ability to have faith in the math teacher - did nothing to lessen or increase what the teacher had to teach you. Certainly having more faith in the teacher might quicken your own learning or help you learn better - but your own faith - did not increase or lessen - math.
Let us look at Peter walking on water�
It is usually though that it was the Peter worked his faith up to such a level - that he was able to get out of the boat and walk on the water - as long as he kept his faith worked up to such a level. But that is not at all what happened. Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and gave absolutely not thought to the act� it seemed the most natural thing in the world to do - and only when he became conscious that - to his surprise - he was doing what it is impossible for humans to do - did he begin to sink. It was not his worked up level of faith that caused him to walk on water (he was unconsciously doing it) is was when his mind said �Oh my God! People can�t walk on water!! I can�t walk on water!!�) that he began to sink. In no way did Peter say to himself �OK.. Have faith! Faith faith faith - just step a foot out of the boat - believe him - just do it and pray pray pray�� - nope. Not at all. Grace - temporarily blinded him - so that walking on the water seemed as natural to him as walking down to the store - walking across the floor of his house�. Etc� Only when Peter took stock of the situation and said �Oh my God! LOOK what I am doing! People can�t do that!� did he begin to sink. Meditate on this.
That is why Jesus always made a point to compare faith to a mustard seed. A tiny thing.
God builds our faith (all he needs is out mustard seed). He builds our faith be surprising us with what he does. Let me give this comparison� if one begins to learn to play the piano� one begins with just a little faith that one can actually learn to play it. If you had no faith in yourself you would simply just never sit down and even try - or you would eventually give up (the glass is half empty) early on. But as one continues to practice and learn - one begins to have more faith (really just less doubt) and eventually one can even play the piano in front of others because he had played pretty well and knows his training will do its part.
In that analogy - if the would be piano player (never having played before) sits down at the piano - and works his human faith up into high levels - do you think that the strength of his faith (that he can play well) would make him immediately play as Beethoven - even without training and knowing a thing about notes and hand styles and what the black keys are or the white?? Of course not.
And so faith - grows - as we progress in the spiritual life - because we actually experience God doing things with us.
Unfortunately - today - when what the spiritual doctors of the church have told us about how God works in our soul daily - has been all but assigned to the dust bin - we have no real experience of God - and so our natural faith (which is what he grows) remains stunted. And so we come to believe that we must hold on to faith in something that we do not really experience (the presence of God - the acts of God) and if we hold onto that against all odds - we will be rewarded after we die.
While there is some truth to that view (hold on against the odds and you will be rewarded) we have come to misunderstand it - across the board. Because we place all our hope in - the end judgment - and the application of mercy toward us - we fail to live each day for what God whishes up to progress and accomplish - today. And so we (who think faith should result in sweat smooth living) do not accept it when God tries to purge us (an uncomfortable thing) and pray for that to stop.
We know next to nothing about Providence. We know next to nothing about the stages of the spiritual life. We know next to nothing about how God talks to us in our conscience.
And because we do not know either the doctrine of Providence - nor - how it is that God works on us - God is around us all day and we do not recognize him or think he is present and acting. It is we - who must learn the �language� that God uses to communicate with us - the language of events that happen to us.
God - is a God - and except for the years in which he walked as human here - he does not speak to us as humans do. He is God! All creation is his language spoken to us. But we can not learn that language unless we know something about it. And we can not know much about it - unless we learn it. And we can not learn it unless we know what Providence is - how it works - what are its purposes etc� Providence is God speaking to us from the - outside. And conscience is God speaking to us from the inside.
If our prayers consist only in directing God on how to run his world by pleading - or in periods where we try to cease all thought (method) - then God will stop listening to us (he know very well how to run his world) and we would not be able to hear him anyway because we are too busy making our heads empty (quite an un-natural thing to do). I will not here describe contemplation because that would make this long post longer. But surface it to say that it does not consist of a practice of a method.
So my friend - we have been - robbed - of the experience of God - here and now. Robbed not by an insidious plot - but robbed by our own misunderstandings (the effects of sin) - which can only be reformed in us by an attention to daily Providence (events sent to us each day by God himself) and attention to conscience.
No set of rules (called laws by Jesus) can replace Providence and conscience. We would prefer it to be so (�Give me a set oof rules to follow that will produce holiness - and if I feel no change - then my church must not have the rules right and I must seek a church which has the rules and laws more correct.�)
The law (any set of rules to follow) have never ever made anyone holy. Alchemy - does not work. They are guideposts - not ingrediance for a formula of holiness (as the Pharisees imagined them to be).
Without knowing Providence and how conscience work together for sanctification - life can certainly seem hard and like a punishment of continual purgatory - yet we are not gaining in holiness. Our wheels are spinning - we are stuck in the mud. We wonder �Where is God?� and we do not experience him to any extent where it is impossible to doubt that he has made his presence known to us - and so it seems that faith must mean to continue to believe in God - even though we have very little reason to believe and have come down to just hoping that we can have an experience of him after our death.
Do you think that early Christians were able to face death because they held on to faith despite having any tangible reason? My friend - humans are just not built that way. Let me make on more comparison�
Imagine that you and your brother knew someone (let us call that someone - Bob) - now imagine that that Bob moved away and you could not see or talk to Bob daily. After several years - it comes the mind of you and you brother (who does not live with you) at the same time �Gee - I wonder if Bob is still alive?� Now your brother picks up the phone and calls Bob and chats and they catch up on things. But you do not call Bob - instead you just tell yourself �Have faith - assume he is alive� and year after year you just keep telling yourself �Have faith� which your brother keeps talking to Bob on the phone every few months. Both of you have faith that Bob is still alive - but which faith is better - yours or your brother??
One last comparison� if someone said �I shall come and live at your house with you - starting today� and you went home and you did not see or hear that person at your house - and months past by - and you never saw that person in your house and never heard that person in your house - should you just have �faith� that this person is living in you house but it is just coincidental that you never ran into him?? Does such a thing seem like a reasonable thing to you??
Well I do not think that Jesus was pretending when he said �He who believes in me - I shall come and make my home with them� - we are meant to occasionally - experience - God. To know - without a doubt - that he is here - and acting - in us and around us. And each time we experience him - our faith that he is alive and working - automatically grows by itself. That is what God means when he said �Unless I build the house - it will not stand.� That is how early Christians when asked on pain of death �Do you believe Jesus is God?� and they answered (knowing the consequences �Oh - you bet I do!�
The answer to everyone�s longing for God - rests in knowing about Providence (what the doctors of the church tell us is the Will of God) and conscience.
The spiritual assent - progress in the spiritual life - toward union - consists of steps that God and the person take together (a cooperation). How can a person offer cooperation to something he knows nothing about?? He can�t! and so a person who is making good spiritual progress is experiencing God more and more as he progresses. He is - getting to know - God. No one can know something he can not experience. That is impossible. And so we must not imagine that progress in the spiritual life is devoid of experiencing God and then all of a sudden one day we are �pop� in mystical union and now we know what we had never known before.
Those who do not know God in the way of spiritual progress - make these things all complicated and confused. They do so as to intellectually baffle themselves and others. They argue points of theology and rules and semantics claiming this church or that church to have it wrong in doctrine. They make it seems as it the spiritual life is a great mystery which we can not understand unless we have been given the grace and smart intellect which they were given. And that is poppy cock. Theology is not a mystery (we have been given it all and have had it for well over 1500 years) and if God wishes us to progress in the spiritual life - do you think it would make sense for him to keep it a secret and a mystery?? If we failed it would then be - his fault - because he made it too hard for us ordinary humans to do and understand! So therefore it is really - easy - to both do and understand.
I remember one time reading posts in which some were discussing the Trinity - and someone was saying �the fathers tell us that the Trinity is a great mystery which we must have the grace to understand - and no one can understand it unless God grant grace to understand this great mystery� - and I could not help but think to myself - over 2000 years ago - Jesus revealed that mystery to us - it was a mystery no longer - 2000 years ago!! One nature - three persons. There is only one human nature (not two) and we know a very great number of persons who share that one human nature. This is no �mystery� to us. One canine nature - and I know several dogs around where I live. This is no mystery to me. One God nature - and three persons who share that one nature. This was explained to us - there is no mystery to it - we KNOW IT now. It HAS been revealed to us and we have known it for 2000 years. Does one really need to know how the mechanics work that there can be only one human nature but yet billions of humans?? What good would it be for us to understand the way this can be? Yet some of us trouble ourselves no end to try and figure out how the single God-nature can be three persons. For what reason would a bird care how fusion works within the sun?? The birds brain is not fit to understand that - so it is that our human mind is not fit to understand how it is that there can be several humans and only one human nature - and three persons yet only one God-nature. We want to be gods and have knowledge equal to God�s own knowledge - at our own control. We want to know these things even before God has purged us from the effects of sin. For what purpose? What would we do with that knowledge? What CAN we do with it? Nothing. Nothing at all. It is reserved for God to use. Even if God grant it (which is much more than we need) that knowledge will not keep us from further sin because God is not yet done with purging us from the effects of sin yet. So we might know that great secret on Monday - and by Tuesday it has not kept us from still spreading rumors or any of the other habitual tendencies to sin that remain because God is not done with us yet. To want to know such deep things which is beyond the limits of the human mind except by abstract concepts) is most times a diversion of the intellect - and a substitution for daily attention to conscience and daily events of Providence.
Now - it took me - all that - just to say that yes - we can and should voluntarily submit ourselfs to God's actions the purge from us the effects of sin - here - while yet still alive and it can be voluntary on our part and because it is voluntary we can gain and share its merits with others. If we wait untill death - it will be forced upon us involuntarily and we shall not have the higher place in heaven that our vountary cooperation would have gained.
http://www.thegenesisletters.com/library/Caussade/BookOne.htm -ray
but the Roman Catholic church does not teach that purgation is a place or a location. 
