www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Moscow Orthodox Leaders Oppose Greek Catholic Plan To Move Center To Kyiv

Alex, God bless and keep your Ukie mind, heart and spirit Don (a Ukie wannabe)

Abdur,

A Slav-Muslim is like a Reeses peanut butter cup without the peanut butter.

A plane without wings.

A pen without ink.

A lamp without a bulb.

A carnvial without the clowns.

The news without Clinton.

Yassar Arafat without the sunglasses.

Cuba with no cigars.

Dole without the pen.

Well, you get the picture.

But realistically speaking, Christianity also lacks a central teaching authority:

*Orthodoxy claims to be the true faith.

*Catholicism claims to be the true faith.

*Various Protestant churches claim to be the true faith---hundreds of them!

Then, within each group, you have sub-groups and all of them claim to be the true faith.

So there is not a central authority within Christianity, either.

For an outsider, these claims are mind boggling.

No, objectively speaking, Islam certainly is not as variegated as Christianity and we have many mosques, especially in the Americas and Europe, where all forms of Islam are represented--and peacefully--within one united Islamic community.

Abdur

PS-Maybe if you spend your time fighting me, you won't spend so much time fighting one another.

Maybe deep Islamic inroads into the former Christian lands of Europe will force you to bury your petty differences.

The Crusader invasion of Palestine certainly united feuding Islamic parties against a common foe.

And consider the results of our unity.

[ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]

Once again, you ignore the truth.

Sunni say they are the true and only muslims, that shia and dervish are not muslims.

Shia say they are the true and only muslims, that sunni and dervish are not muslims.

Wahabis say they are the true and only muslims.

As for all being welcome at any mosques is also not true. Muslim women who chose not to wear the head scarf, what ever it is called, are not welcome in fundamentalist mosques.

This is the last I will say on the topic, but if you are going to point out our faults then be prepared to have yours shown also.

And again, you attempt to distort the truth.

The Catholic Church does teach that it is the True Faith, but it also says that the Orthodox Church is a sister Church and also shares in the True Faith. It goes on to say, that the protestants carry a portion of the True Faith.

Your brother in Christ,
David

[ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: DavidB ]

Give me a break, OD!

There have been Islamic Slavs for 700 years!

Abdur

Dear Abdur,

It is so nice to see Muslims and Orthodox Christians getting along so well!

It all bodes well for the future of ecumenical and inter-religious relations, don't you think?

Alex

Good...I want you to show me (us) my (our) faults since I want to learn to be a better Muslim.

Here is the critical point:

It doesn't matter--on a practical basis--which Islamic group claims to be "Islam," etc., since the Prophet specifically decreed that there must be freedom of expression and points of view within the greater Islamic community. So, by providing for a variety of opinions and practices within Islam we are only being true to the Prophet.

I do not think that Muslims--in general--would be "happy campers" under one central authority, especially those of us from the West or of European ethnicity. (The same would apply for the central asians as well.)

Abdur

Dear Abdur,

I think your skills are wasted here - they need you in Islamic public relations .

In the End, when, as we both believe, the Lord Jesus will be the Judge, I would like to think He will judge us on what we have done as individuals, not what our historical communities have done or have been guilty of.

Truce? A white flag? Or do you prefer a green one?

Salaam Alekum!

Alex

However, I am still left with the absolute claims to truth by the Orthodox and a whole variety of protestant churches.

All of these conflicting claims are very confusing and prove that there is no central authority within Christendom, which on second thought, might not be a deficit but an asset for Christendom in the long run.

Abdur

Dear Abdur,

Bismillah Ar-Rahman Ar-Rahim!

How come you're not responding to my posts, Sahib!

Are you ignoring me on purpose? :rolleyes:

(I know you are not.)

Your last sentence in your post to our Brother David is interesting.

It was Bl. Pope John XXIII who once said that Christians should not worry about their divisions.

Instead, they should strive to imitate and follow Christ, each within their own denomination and Church.

When they will do that, Christian unity will become more evident.

Salaam Alekum,

Alex

David wrote;

>>>>As for all being welcome at any mosques is also not true. Muslim women who chose not to wear the head scarf, what ever it is called, are not welcome in fundamentalist mosques.<<<<

What I actually wrote is that there are many mosques in the Americas and Europe that one could call pan-Islamic, i.e., that allow for a variety of Islamic practices and beliefs; similar to Protestant union churches.

Certainly fundamentalists would disagree, even though there are fundamentalists within my community who respect those of us who disagree with them and do not attempt to disrupt the life of our Muslim community.

I know that this is true and my point is based on personal experience.

Abdur

[ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]

Salaam, Alex Effendi!

How about this flag?

www.flags.net/BOHE.htm [flags.net]

Abdur

Ahdnama

www.bosnet.org/bosnia/history/ahdnama.shtml [bosnet.org]

Zulu latahat! (That's just about all the Arabic I know)

Anyways, to get back on topic, I think that the Orthodox should keep quite on this one. They already have government people in their pockets in both Ukraine and Russia, yet they are still having problems with other denominations.

Kiev is the capital, just like Washington D.C. To make an analogy, the majority of OCA parishes are probably in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York. However, they have their Cathedral in Washington D.C.!!!! Oh no!!!! Call the police!!!
(I have nothing against the OCA -- this is just an example).

Ukrainian Catholics have just as much a right to Kiev as the Orthodox. After the Union of Brest, Ukrainian Catholics had Saint Sophia as the cathedral. Just because political borders prevented us from having parishes there for 300 years and then godless atheists would let us exist doesn't mean we can't move the Patriarchate there.

Daniil

Only I can appreciate sly remarks like this.