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Myles Offline OP
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Good post, Myles !

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I'm a Ukrainian Catholic who is worshiping (and receiving communion) at a Greek Orthodox Church while I am at school. What a glorious thing it would be for the Orthodox and the Catholic to be united!!!

Matt

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Matt,

I hope the GO priest said it was okay for you to do so.

Is this a legitimate use of "oikonomia," even though the GOC prohibits this?

Logos Teen

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Dear Teen,

It happens sometimes according to the conscience of the Priest. They will not get excommunicated for it or defrocked. Let's just leave it at that so we don't ruffle any feathers here or anywhere else. Thank you.

In Christ,
Alice

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Dear Friends,

The promotion of such unity would be greatly helped if the RC Church herself went beyond the endless theological debates and ecumenical commission meetings to doing just a few things that would demonstrate to the Orthodox it is serious about unity:

1) remove the Filioque from its usage of the Nicene Creed;

2) Declare a distinction between the Seven Ecumenical Councils ("Universal Councils") and her later 14 RC Councils ("Local Councils of the RC Church");

3) Declare "purgatory" and the Marian dogmas as Latin expressions of truths that are ALREADY held by both Catholics and Orthodox together;

and finally:

4) Situate the papal dogmas within the context of the papacy of the first millennium.

If the RC Church does this, there would be no more need for ecumenical press releases like the one above!

Alex

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The Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople has warmly welcomed and prayed with Eastern Catholics on at least several occasions. In fact, I distinctly remember seeing a picture of the current head of the Ukrainian Canadian Committee�s Toronto Branch on such an occasions several years ago in which there are about 100 or so young Ukrainian Greek Catholics posing with the Patriarch in Constantinople after praying with him (Maybe Alex could ask the head of the UCC Toronto Branch for the picture wink ). If the Patriarch didn�t mind, I�m not sure why a Greek Orthodox priest in a small Californian Parish not welcome a Eastern Catholic.

I.F.

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I don't take lightly questioning a priest or bishop, and I don't know all the circumstances, but at least what the priest in question is doing at face level is highly improper. Here is what the OCA Q & A [oca.org] says on this topic.

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For Orthodox Christians, the Eucharist is a visible sign of unity; to receive the Eucharist in a community to which one does not belong is improper. If one does not accept all that the Church believes and teaches and worships, one cannot make a visible sign of unity with it. The Eucharist is the result of unity, not the means by which unity is achieved. While many non-Orthodox see this as a sign that the Orthodox Church excludes non-Orthodox from the Eucharist, in reality the opposite is true. Because a non-Orthodox individual has chosen not to embrace all that Orthodox Christianity holds, the non-Orthodox individual makes it impossible for an Orthodox priest to offer him or her communion. It is not so much a matter of Orthodoxy excluding non-Orthodox as it is the non-Orthodox making it impossible for the Orthodox to offer the Eucharist.

Sometimes people argue, "But Father, I believe everything the Orthodox Church teaches." If this is indeed the case, then the question is not one of Eucharistic hospitality but, rather, "Then if you believe everything the Orthodox Church teaches, why haven't you become an Orthodox Christian?"
My understanding is also that if a Catholic Church is within reasonable distance of a Catholic, they are under an obligation to attend services there. My understanding may be incorrect though.

Andrew

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I agree with Alice. Stop ruffling feathers.

Unity will come from the simple humble people who wish to worship our Lord. Not from the people who want to make sure every "T" is crossed the exact same way.

If you really want unity be a little more understand.

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Dear Jean Francois,

The EP of Constantinople has also been quite vocal in decrying the recognition of a UGCC patriarchate by Rome and the move of the UGCC's headquarters to Rome.

Alex

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Dear Friends,

But Rilian is giving us ecumenists a healthy dose of reality.

Catholics see the division of the Church in terms of the "separated brethren" model where the Orthodox Church is a true Church with sacraments etc. despite not being in communion with Rome.

Orthodox see Catholics as being . . . separated from the one True Church of Christ - period.

Orthodoxy sees us Catholics as being . . . not Orthodox which means that we are heretics.

If we were not, we would be Orthodox and there would be one Church.

Am I right?

Alex

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Perhaps it�s better just to view this from a simpler level. Our respective churches have norms and standards which I think it is fair to say we are expected to be obedient to. I can say from the Orthodox side the clergy certainly and rightly have the ability to exercise ekonomia, but always with the understanding that ekonomia is for exceptional circumstances.

The Eucharist is particularly important for two central reasons. Firstly, because it is the deepest bond of faith between ourselves and God and between ourselves and the worshipping community. When I take the Eucharist, I am really saying I believe what the church teaches and professes. It would be wrong for me for instance to accept communion but to deny it is the body and blood of Christ, or to insist my bishop does not have the authority he proclaims to have. It would be much worse if the priest serving communion was aware of my feelings, but went ahead and allowed me to commune anyway.

The other reason the Eucharist is so important in this regard is that when a priest is ordained, the bishop places the Lamb in his hands and says words to the effect �how you guard this is how you will be judged�. It is a profound responsibility, and to deviate from what the church has said is acceptable and right is a weighty matter, and should have a substantial justification.

Andrew

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Dear Andrew,

Let me take this to an even simpler level - do you as an Orthodox Christian see me as an EC as being heretical or not?

Am I an heretic to you?

Yes or no. smile

Man for all Seasons:

Thomas More: My answer is no, Roper, and no it shall be as long as you are a heretic.

Roper: Now that's a word I don't like, Sir Thomas!

More: It's not a likeable word - it's not a likeable thing!

Aren't you just amazed at how I can reach down in my memory and bring up these dramatic tidbits? smile

Are Orthodox Christians allowed to take themselves as unseriously as I take myself? wink

Alex

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Quote
But Rilian is giving us ecumenists a healthy dose of reality
Actually, the reality of Matt's situation is what Matt says it is. And the responsibility directly belongs to the priest and his Bishop in the GOA.

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My understanding is also that if a Catholic Church is within reasonable distance of a Catholic, they are under an obligation to attend services there. My understanding may be incorrect though.
Your understanding is incorrect.

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Dear djs,

I wasn't relating that statement to Matt's situation.

I myself have been invited to approach Communion in an Orthodox Church before.

But I won't because I'm too much of a Catholic for that . . . and I hope you are too wink

(You certainly sound like you are! smile ).

Viva il Papa!

Alex

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