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#129213 12/03/05 12:12 PM
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In Eucharistic Adoration, I can adore Jesus Christ and I can be with Jesus Christ by looking at Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. I love the Christian East, and the Christian East does much well with the Gospel, but in this they seem to fail. To the best of my knowledge, they do not have Eucharistic Exposition or Adoration. They don�t do so because they believe the Eucharist is only for eating; they believe that icons are for looking. This is so sad. An icon is a picture of Him. The Eucharist IS Him. I would much rather be with and look at a loved one rather than a picture; how much more true is that for Christ our God? For God is good, and He loves mankind. Eucharistic Exposition and Adoration is the crowning achievement of Western Christianity; and it is the great gift of the West to the East and to all the world. For �it� is Him: Jesus Christ, God is with us.

-- John

#129214 12/03/05 12:16 PM
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Live Eucharistic Exposition, at a convent with perpetual adoration:

http://www.savior.org


-- John

#129215 12/03/05 01:47 PM
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In the Way of the Pilgrim, the pilgrim accompanies a priest who is taking Holy Communion to a homebound so he can "pray in the presence of the Holy Gifts". This is the only refernce to Eucharistic Adoration I've ever seen in the East.

#129216 12/03/05 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by harmon3110:
In Eucharistic Adoration, I can adore Jesus Christ and I can be with Jesus Christ by looking at Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. I love the Christian East, and the Christian East does much well with the Gospel, but in this they seem to fail. To the best of my knowledge, they do not have Eucharistic Exposition or Adoration. They don�t do so because they believe the Eucharist is only for eating; they believe that icons are for looking. This is so sad. An icon is a picture of Him. The Eucharist IS Him. I would much rather be with and look at a loved one rather than a picture; how much more true is that for Christ our God? For God is good, and He loves mankind. Eucharistic Exposition and Adoration is the crowning achievement of Western Christianity; and it is the great gift of the West to the East and to all the world. For �it� is Him: Jesus Christ, God is with us.

-- John
John

I think I see what you mean here

BUT

we do know that He is there in the Tabernacle on the Holy Table - the Holy Gifts are preserved there so they can be taken to the sick when necessary.

OK as the newest EC on the block [ I think wink ] mebbe I'm wrong - please give me a wee kick if I am

Anhelyna - who is no longer lopsided biggrin

#129217 12/03/05 03:21 PM
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Adoration is a Western devotion, the East has its own types of quasi-liturgical devotions. Feel sorry for us because we have not fully made use of our own rich Tradition, not because we lack Adoration.

#129218 12/03/05 03:50 PM
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Eucharistic Adoration began in the West when frequent Communion was unheard of. Also,it was a response to a heresy started by a layman in the Low Countries who denied the Divine Presence. We never denied the Divine Presence in the Holy Eucharist. It is not "sad"; its a fact.

#129219 12/03/05 04:03 PM
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The Eucharist is a means to an end, not an end unto itself (or Himself). The end is man's deification, it is not just something pretty to look at. True, I like to go to Adoration once in a while just as much as the next person, but the idea that there is a "real" presence (in the Eucharistic species) and a "mystical" presence (in the Church) is not a traditional belief at all.

Henri de Lubac makes it quite clear that the term "Corpus Mysticum" was not applied at first to the Church, but rather to the Eucharistic gifts. The "Corpus Verum" (the true Body) is the Church for the mind of the Patristic Church. While the Eucharistic species IS Christ, He is not there just to be the prisoner in the Tabernacle or in the monstrance; He is there in order to unite US to Him.

By saying all of this, I do not mean to discourage your Eucharistic piety. I just want to give you something to think about when you are in front of the Lord.

#129220 12/03/05 08:28 PM
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I've heard that St John Chrysostom, Doctor of the Eucharist, advocated Eucharistic adoration--that is, praying in the presence of Our Lord's body. Anyone able to confirm?


"We love, because he first loved us"--1 John 4:19
#129221 12/03/05 08:41 PM
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I absolutely love Adoration. It was at Adoration that I had my "born-again" experience (to use protestant lingo), and it is in adoration which I have experienced much growth.

Even if I switch rites, I do not think I will ever give up adoration, I do think that Adoration is a great tool for theosis.

#129222 12/03/05 10:09 PM
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My own personal opinion, and if anyone disagrees, feel free to comment, is as follows:

We cannot approach a question like this with the goal of finding which tradition is "right" and which is "wrong."

Eucharistic Adoration is a beautiful devotion, and one that bears great fruit. Being totally Latin and Western, I can't imagine myself without it, as it comprises a major part of the way in which I express my love for Christ. The two devotions closest to my heart are Adoration and the Rosary.

However, this does not mean that a tradition without Adoration is in any way worse or "lacking." Rather, it simply means that it is different. Indeed, the East has a great number of very beautiful, wonderful, devotions that bear just as much fruit as Adoration.

The point that I think it is important for us to remember is that no matter how beautiful, fruitful, or beneficial ANY devotion is, a particular devotion is NOT essential to the Faith. The Church, the Scripture, the Tradition, the Sacraments (which together culminate in the Divine Liturgy/Holy Mass) - THESE are essential to the Faith.

Any discussion of things outside of these, like discussion of devotions, is going to be a discussion of subjective preference. It is a discussion of what make ME grow stronger in my faith, and that means that I cannot claim that someone without that devotion is lacking or that his tradition is found wanting.

Your Brother In Christ,

Jeff


fides quaerens intellectum
#129223 12/03/05 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by JeffCR07:
However, this does not mean that a tradition without Adoration is in any way worse or "lacking." Rather, it simply means that it is different. Indeed, the East has a great number of very beautiful, wonderful, devotions that bear just as much fruit as Adoration.
Hmmmm. Well said, Jeff. I stand corrected.

To my Eastern brothers and sisters: Please accept my apologies if I caused offense. That was not my intent, but I should have thought this through more before I posted what I did.

-- John

#129224 12/03/05 10:26 PM
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John - you didn't cause me any offense - we just look at things slightly differently.

#129225 12/03/05 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by Our Lady's slave of love:
John - you didn't cause [b]me any offense - we just look at things slightly differently. [/b]
Dear Anhelyna

I'm glad I didn't offend you. I really don't want to cause offense, especially here.

And, it is in trying to understand our differences too eagerly that I am sometimes apt to make an a## of myself. :rolleyes:

But Jeff made a useful point, and I would like to explore it. What, if anything, is the "equivalent" (if that is the right word) to Eucharistic adoration in the Eastern tradition?

-- John

#129226 12/04/05 01:21 AM
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John,
This maybe of some benefit.

From Adoration of the Body and Blood of Christ [unicorne.org] :
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Question:

I am a recent Singaporean convert to Orthodoxy from Roman Catholicism. I notice that although Orthodox holds the same belief with Catholics that the Eucharist is really the Body & Blood of Christ, there is more veneration given to icons then to the Holy Gifts. For example, why does Orthodox christians not adore the Body & Blood of Christ? I asked my parish priest & he said that the Eucharist is meant to seen in a context of a meal and there is no need for veneration outside of the Liturgy.

I understand that even after the Liturgy, the consecrated Gifts remains the Body & Blood of Christ. Is it all right for me, an Orthodox to adore our Lord Jesus in the Eucharist?

Answer:

Dr. Alexander Roman alex@unicorne.org

You raise a very interesting question.

The adoration of Christ in Holy Communion is, first of all, something that the Orthodox Church truly DOES participate in, but within the context of the Divine Liturgy itself.

We adore Christ Who is truly Present on the Altar following the Epiclesis, the culminating point that completes the Eucharistic Canon during which bread and wine become the Body and Blood of our Lord, God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

We bow down before the Incarnate Word of God and adore Him - absolutely!

We prepare zealously for the reception of Him in Holy Communion by fasting and the long prayers of preparation, as you know, and of thanksgiving afterward. Upon receiving our Saviour-God in Holy Communion, we kiss the edge of the Chalice that represents the Wounded Side of Christ from which flowed Blood and Water as we are nourished from that Same Side.

We are blessed by the priest or bishop with the Chalice, in other words, with the Incarnate Son of God present in the Eucharist Himself immediately following.

The entire Church, East and West, prior to the schism of 1054, and in the West, even later, knew ONLY this form of adoration of Christ present in the Holy Eucharist.

Later, as a kind of reaction against Protestantism and its denial of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, there began the Western practices of Eucharistic Adoration outside the Mass. Devotions included placing the Reserved Eucharistic Host in a monstrance so that people could "see the Lord Jesus" and also for purposes of Eucharistic processions.

Such processions in the West also developed from the Church processions with the Holy Eucharist to the homes of very sick people so that the priests might give them Holy Communion and prepare them for their meeting with God after death.

In the West, people would decorate the path the procession would take with flowers and ribbons, praying the entire way etc. Something similar occurs in the East with certain Icons that are brought regularly to private homes for veneration (e.g. the Icon of the Kyivan Caves Mother of God in Bryanske).

The East sees the Holy Eucharist as a great Mystery and therefore "covers up" what the West prefers to look at and "see."

The East has a more dynamic understanding of the Eucharist within the context of the Liturgy and our union with the Holy Trinity through our communion with the Sacred Mystery of the Eucharist.

In addition, with the use of Latin in the West, the laity tended to develop their own devotions of a "paraliturgical" nature with prayers in the language of the people etc. Some see the development of the Eucharistic Monstrance precisely as a lay form of devotion.

This led to an entire category of Western lay services that were outside the liturgical life of the Church. Vatican II tried to address the problems that this developed as Catholic laity tended to emphasize private prayers over and above liturgical prayer.

The Western "Supplication" Eucharistic service involves the blessing of the people with the Host in a monstrance. As we have seen, the East has ALWAYS had the blessing of the people with the Chalice immediately following Holy Communion. Catholic liturgists, at one point, actually tried to bring this blessing into the body of the Western Mass, but this clashed with its liturgical structure.

However, with the coming of Greek Catholics into Orthodoxy in Eastern Europe at various times, a number of Western practices, including the paraliturgical adoration of the Holy Eucharist, came to be "tolerated" in certain areas.

This was especially true in western Ukraine following 1946. In the Orthodox Churches there, even to this day, one can find the Eucharistic Supplication Services with the monstrance in certain Orthodox parishes, the Stations of the Cross and even devotion to the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary!

In the time of St Alexis Toth in the United States, converts to Orthodoxy there were also allowed to keep their private Latin devotions and St Alexis was very understanding in this regard - he being himself a convert to Orthodoxy from the Greek Catholic Basilian Order!

All in all, the Orthodox Church does indeed adore Christ in Holy Communion and the Divine Liturgy is the best context in which that is done.

You may adore Christ on the Altar any time you are in Church for any service, or when you just come in to pray by yourself.

When we pray the Jesus Prayer, we also commune spiritually with Christ Who enters our hearts and minds at that time by way of what the Fathers called the "Epiclesis of Jesus Christ."

#129227 12/04/05 01:38 AM
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This is just speculation here, but I wonder if there is any connection between the growth of Eucharistic Exposition (not adoration - the two are not necessarily synonymous) seperate from the Divine Liturgy in the West and its underdeveloped theology of icons? That is not to say that it grew out of weakness, but clearly this practice developed in relationship to a real need that resonates with the people.

Just a thought...

Gordo

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