www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Two lungs but how to breathe?

Dear Alex,

Within each denomination there are fundamentalists that would cause friction if something is changed. There would also be those that would feel Rome is bowing down to the Orthodox. :rolleyes:

Now I know in the Orthodox Church, we have so, so, many people like this, and any change could easily cause another split. As an example, look at the old calendarists.

It takes a while for any change to be accepted, and unfortunately, the priests and bishops, who the people follow, are usually not helpful in that respect.

Zenovia

News Flash!

We are actively organizing a grassroots movement consisting of committed individuals who have vowed to neither eat nor sleep until this whole filioque issue has been resolved. Imagine the impact of these countless hungry, tired and irritable people! Extreme measures may also involve - gasp - a prolonged holding of one's breath. We will be heard! This movement follows the (sadly) short-lived "stand on one foot until the primacy of the pope issue is completely resolved" vigil. Some individuals - (EXTREMELY UNBALANCED I hasten to mention) have opted to actually pray daily - mentioning by name all the key spiritual leaders (pope, patriarchs, etc) - West and East. These same "radicals" have resorted to - ha! - reading about the way the undivided church operated in the Scriptures and church fathers. They take "field trips" to other rites and even work together in programs for the poor, etc. They are often seen dialoging on the Byzantine Forum�


Pani Rose

LOL !

--John

"committed individuals who have vowed to neither eat nor sleep until this whole filioque issue has been resolved..."

I'm afraid they're gonna be extremely THIN or dead before this happens...but we can hope otherwise!

I'd rather pray and fast that both East and West begin to understand the language used and the reasons for using the filiogue in the 1st place!

In His great mercy,
+Fr. Gregory

Dear Father Gregory,

...thanks for the chuckle, you are TOO funny! :p

Actually, if I am not mistaken, our respective theologians have reached some agreement this past year. It was even written up in the Orthodox Observer. So, I do think that the translational factor of the philioque clause that you speak of is finally being understood.

My husband and I were discussing it the other day over dinner. I mentioned that the Roman Catholic church in Greece is the only place in the Roman Catholic world where the Creed is recited without the filioque...and he responded, "well, ofcourse, since it was added in the West to aid understanding, Greek speakers would not have that limitation/problem because it is in the original language!" He then added, "they are not going to tranlate it from Greek into Latin and then from Latin, back to Greek again!" :rolleyes:

So, it really is unbelievably simple! Even St. Gregory Palamas, the greatest Orthodox theologian ever, explained the procession as the Roman Catholics would understand it.

Ofcourse, 'simple' alludes the Eastern mindset sometimes! LOL!

In Christ,
Alice

P.S. THAT is why I am so grateful for Orthodox priests like you that give example to truth for truth's sake, and that do not make a big deal out of things that are NOT a big deal.

Amen, Amen!

Alice & Myles, Thank you for your kind words. You know where I got a lot of ideas? From a little gem of a book called: Your God Is Too Small by J.B. Philips. I recommend it to EVERYONE...and I would LOVE to have a few Orthodox bishops read it! But, they're probaly not interested...they have a book of their own called: My God Is Very Tiny . Another one they like: I'm Another God Here . As one of my priest-friends always says, "Oh yeah? Well, if that's the case, then you're a darn poor substitute!" God help us all!

In His Holy Name,
+Fr. Gregory

P.S. My mom gave me the BEST advice on the morning of my ordination. We arrived at the cathedral and we got out of the car. My dad got my things out of the back and my mother brushed off my cassock and then said to me something I'll never forget: " Now stand up straight and try not to look too pleased with yourself ! "

Thank God for my wonderful parents!

In Him,
+Fr. Gregory

Fr. Gregory,

That sounds like something my mom would say. I especially remember her frequent advice for me not to "ride on my high horse."

She's gone to her 'better place' now for many years...but the words live on...

Blessing,

Mary Jo

P.P.S. Another excellent book (perhaps for Lenten reading) is: The Noonday Devil - Spiritual Support in Middle Age by Fr. Berard Basset, SJ (A Doubleday Image Book).

In His Holy Name,
+Fr. Gregory

Wonderful! I needed that.

-ray

Magnificent manifesto!!

:p

I had to giggle a little, but my first reaction to your question was to do as my parents did - MARRY each other. (Dad was Roman Catholic; mom Orthodox.) Very enriching religious upbringing for the children. Strict in two slightly different ways! ;-)

I'd like to take an informal survey of ECs on this message board. Two questions:

1. In your parish, what language is the creed said in?

2. Suppose you were to attend a liturgy at a Latin-Rite Catholic parish, in which Charlemange's creed was to be said. What, precisely, would you do? Would you recite the creed but pause while the rest of the congregation said the filioque clause? Or would you remain silent throughout the entire creed? Or would you recite the entire creed including the filioque?

Thanks in advance to all responders.
-Peter.

In my church the creed is said in English. I long ago stopped worrying about filioque and have decided it's two ways of looking at the same thing. If I am ticked off at the Latins at the particular time, I may stay silent during it. If not, I may say it. I suspect filioque may be dropped someday.