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Quicunque vult linguas minores vel maiores praestare proposit nescit aliquod functionis mentarum humanarum. Aliquis lingua cogitationes multas formulare potest; sed extremis in casis cogitationis formulae exhibere selectis in linguis non possunt. Status linguarum sicut "superior" vel "inferior" non valet. Irrationalis propositio sine fundamentum sciencia in linguistica proponent.

Benedictiones!

Low Res. Trailor here: http://www.themoviebox.net/trailers/thepassion/thepassion_tr_lo.htm

Phone Modems should work ok here but go get a cup of coffee when you start.

Lemko Rusyn wrote:

The only reason I wrote that statement in Latin was to add to the words of Pontius Pilate in the trailer - "Ecce Homo". I was deeply moved by that scene. I do not consider myself a Latin Catholic. When Mel Gibson makes his next Christ-centered movie using OCS I'll be sure to post a response in OCS (when I finally learn it!). I'm not trying to "Latinize" anyone or anything.


Slava Isusu Christu!
Glenn

LOL! Or copy the format of Parma's newspaper, HORIZONS.

Just recently, we got to read an article about Mitch Finley's book, "It's Not the Same Without You: Coming Home to the Catholic Church," which was in the June 8, 2003 edition of HORIZONS. It covers stories about alienated Catholics who left the Church (read: Roman Catholic Church). The book states that "millions" are alienated! Programs to help reconnect alienated Catholics are mentioned, such as: Alienated Catholics Anonymous (Latin Diocese of Tucson), Landings (Paulists), OnceCatholic (Franciscans). Like the gift shop at Mt. St. Macrina, one wonders where a Byzantine Catholic fits in. Should we be referring alienated Byzantine Catholics to these programs? BTW, five of its twelve pages were clips from CNS. I want to know what OUR Church is doing for alienated Catholics or those who left because they were taught that they were Catholic first, Byzantine second (or last). So, maybe a Traditionalist Forum with a Byzantine section is in order? We can all start speaking Latin.

Joe Thur

Dear Dr. John,

I agree, David was way off base!

Alex

I was merely making an emotional response in support of Lemko's perspective: we seem to be spending a lot of time dealing with Roman Catholic issues, and especially with the "we want Latin and the old ways" crowd.

And while it is certainly not a question of whether RCs are "welcome" in the Byzantine Forum, there is an underlying thematic that RC is the prime analogue of the Church, and that Byzantines/Easterns are OK insofar as they are perceived as hyphenated-Americans (and therefore not susceptible to AmChurch-ism), users of "traditional" religious stuff like incense, candles, flowers, etc. (and therefore - why not stations, rosary, benediction, scapulars, etc., and we bend over backwards saying how wonderful these things are), and how the Tridentine/Latin Mass is just wondeful and how it must be restored (even though its most vocal supporters don't know Latin).

Sometimes things in the forum mirror too frighteningly the day-to-day reality of the status of Easterns vis-a-vis the Non-Eastern environment in which we live our lives. We can be in danger of drowning. And we get a little scared. (So, when the thread goes into Slovak or Ukrainian, I think: "Waaaaaay cooooool!!" I don't get scared even though I don't speak either language and I think it reinforces our sense of identity as Easterns,or better: as UN-Westerns. And if it distresses the Westerns to feel 'excluded', then perhaps they will realize that they are NOT on their turf, even if the turf is also in communion with the Holy See.

So, to be perfectly honest, I won't be distressed if I don't ever see the words: Latin, or Tridentine, traditionalist, rosary, stations, Cardinals, infallibility, SSPX, nuns' habits, novus ordo, , benediction, purgatory, or Jello, on this Forum ever again. They are all great topics for discussion - but not for here.

Blessings!

Dear Dr. John and Lemko,

Thank you both so very much for your posts. I too am very tired of all this TradLat stuff. I come here to learn more about my Eastern Christian faith, Tradition and traditions. I have noticed that every so often we get a new crop of TradLats who try to take over the forum and convert all of us heathern Easterners to the "True Church" and it gets tiresome. Maybe they DO need their own spot on this forum to keep their evangelizing in one spot, leaving the rest of the forum for us poor benighted Easterners to wallow in our heresy/schism. Sorry for the sarcasm, but it does get old. Don

What is this, the Bloods versus the Crips??

I kind of thought being in communion with the Holy See (and more importantly, being in communion with Christ) DID put us on the same turf ... or at least in the same general neighborhood.

Well, Theist, look at the numbers: Eastern Catholics are far outnumbered by those of the Latin Church. If this was the case with Latin Catholics, wouldn't you want ONE place where you could go and learn about the spirituality and theology of your Church??

No offense, but how is one thread dealing with an upcoming and controversial movie about the life of Christ made in Latin stopping you from doing that?

All this because someone posted a line in Latin?

I'll grant that there are problems at times with Latins not being appropriately sensitive to the Eastern Church--and sometimes there are major problems.

But, I don't see a problem if someone wants to post a line in Latin (or Slavonic or Greek or Icelandic).

Being Eastern doesn't mean being anti-Latin.

Back to the topic. I'm quite anxious to see the movie. Thanks for the links and thanks for sharing this with us here!

David Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

Dr. John,

Who are these "most vocal supporters?" Is it necessary to "know" Latin to love and participate in the Divine Liturgy of the Western Church from 1562 to 1962 (since the normal words I use to describe you say you wish not to read on this forym again). Why would it be, when one has missals available at their fingertips?

I wholeheartedly agree...if, of course, you're referring to the Byzantine Forum minus the Town Hall sub-forum.

Don,

Could you please point out some recent posts that fit this description? If this is the case, then it is certainly regrettable and even despicable. But, so far, I haven't seen any posts such as the ones you outline. Perhaps I haven't been reading the Forum thoroughly (seriously, that could really be the case).

Thanks, all.

Glory to Jesus Christ,
Logos Teen

Lo siento mucho para todos mi impaciencia y rudeza en este Forum. Mi promesa es que, en la futura, me dicho solamente en Ingles y no en Latin (pero tal vez in Latino).

Gee,

I go away for a week and return to a range war :rolleyes: . Being one of "them" Traditional RC's I am here to learn about my Eastern Catholic brethern who hold to their traditions and resist the Modernists. The Lord willing, at some point I will make the change.

james

Theist Gal, muchas gracias. [That's the real extent of my Spanish, unless of course you include "cerveza y tequila, por favor."]

I do agree that we are all united in Christ and in the Gospel. But, to use my faded old analogy about the Quebecers and the English Canadians, we are of the same family, but we live in separate households. It would not be polite to go into another's house and rearrange the furniture, or to hang paintings and sconces on the walls. This is what a lot of us Easterners sense when dealing with some Westerns. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what members of the Western Church practice or believe. But, that being said, we would much prefer to deal with the issues that confront our "household".

It becomes especially wounding when fractionalism in the Western church spills over into our communities. And we get caught in the middle of the battles. And the more "tradition" oriented folks see us Easterns as natural allies because we don't do "new" stuff. (Not quite accurate!) Jakub's comment about "Modernist" is a perfect example. "Modernism" was a movement in the Western Church, not in the East. It was condemned in the West and priests were obligated to take an oath against "Modernism" immediately prior to ordination. For us Easterns, it's once again "scratch your head in bewilderment" time. It's like asking the Finns to take an oath against the use of Kung Pao Chicken.

So, for the Western folks who join us Easterns here, please remember that while all Christians are united in baptism and in the service of Our Lord, the Christos, we live in different households with our own customs and practices.

Coming here to "learn" is great, and probably one of the stellar consequences of this Forum's existence. But when the "learning" morphs into a defense of one or another Western paradigm and either (a) precipitates an inter-Western battle in the Byzantine/Eastern household, or (b) suggests that these "positions" are, or should be, relevant for Easterns, is to subtly undermine the Byzantine/Eastern nurturing that we desperately need to do.

The Internet in general, and this Forum in particular, are a true Godsend for us Easterners. Scattered in small, even tiny, parishes across the continent and the globe, we now have the chance to communicate with and provide support for ALL of our brethren and sistren who go on-line. Folks in Arizona can talk with Old Forge in the Old-Country of Pennsylvania. Alaskans can interact with other Byzantines in Florida. And English speaking folks in Europe (and elsewhere - including Australia) can feel part of the larger, Eastern Christian world.

We can discuss (and debate, and even argue) about liturgy. And we can whine about some bad sermons. And we can practically go to war about music and rubrics. But it's OUR household.

And, despite our intercommunion with the See of Peter, our real "household" includes the Orthodox in a wide variety of jurisdictions. It's "family". (And the Vatican Council II TOLD US to look to our Orthodox family for the de-latinization process and for the restoration of our legitimate traditions as they have developed in the years since the Unia.) So, we have a lot of work to do; and a lot of struggle. So we want to work on this without being drawn into all sorts of internecine struggles in the West.

Thus, I ask again that we all (Byzantines and others) keep our focus on the BYZANTINE aspects of this forum. And that our Orthodox brethren who lurk, but don't post for fear of getting involved in 'Catholic' wars, consider coming in as active participants to help us Byzantines and other Eastern Christians work together, within our traditions, to build up our households in the service of Christ.

Blessings!