www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Scripture and Patristic Writings 1 Corinthians 7 : 5

Aftering reading from yesterday's lectionary 1 Cor 6:20 - 7:12, I became curious regarding vs 5 fasting and prayer,and checked all my bibles and behold all but the KJV and NKJV have dropped the word fasting. Yes I know most modern bibles are based on the critical text and not the Byzantine or recieved text.But why would the Western Church eliminate such a important precept?

james

Careful. I know what you're saying, but the western Church has not removed the precept. Liberal heretics with an agenda to push have done so. Liberal Heretics With An Agenda To Push are currently having their day in the sun. But, as Aragorn says (NOT in the movie), "No man knows what the new day may bring him. Get ye gone [heretics] ere it turn to your evil."
LatinTrad

I have in front of me the Confraternity translation of the New Testament, published in 1941. It does not include the word "fasting" in the verse you mentioned. Here are verses 5 and 6:

"Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to prayer; and return together again lest Satan tempt you because you lack self-control."

And here is the same verse from the Latin Vulgate:

"nolite fraudare invicem nisi forte ex consensu ad tempus ut vacetis orationi et iterum revertimini in id ipsum ne temptet vos Satanas propter incontinentiam vestram"

I don't know Latin very well, so I looked in a Latin-English dictionary online. The word for "fasting" is "ieiunium", which I don't see in that verse above. So it does not look like the word "fasting" was in the original translation.

Perhaps the translators of the KJV and the NKJV *added* the word "fasting" to their translations. Wouldn't be the first time.

LatinTrad,

You have to admit that the Church has regressed regarding fasting, even the latest CCC is vague in rules.

james

AMDG
I stand corected by both TheistGirl and Jakub.

The verse in the Vulgate does not include fasting--"Jejunium."

I had this verse confused with another, in which Christ speaks of "oratione atque jejunio" and the LHWAATP translate it as "prayer."

Jakub--you are right about the stinking relaxations.

LT

Remember, though, guys, the CCC was not really written in order to provide "rules", but to provide the *basis* for the rules to be established by the individual Churches.

Remember, it's supposed to be applicable for the whole Catholic Church - East as well as West - and all these different churches have different rules and regulations for fasting.

I believe most of the Churches practice some form of fasting during Lent; some during Advent. And religious orders may have their own special days and times of fasting.

So certainly the CCC is going to be "vague" in the sense that it's not going to come out and say, "All Christians must fast on such-and-such a day, or in such-and-such a manner." That's left to the discretion of the churches and the individuals.

However, the CCC certainly does encourage the practice of fasting and prayer. I found seven different references when I went to the Catechism Online just now http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm - here's just one:

2043 The fourth precept ("You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church") ensures the times of ascesis and penance which prepare us for the liturgical feasts and help us acquire mastery over our instincts and freedom of heart.

So you are certainly well within your rights to fast as much as you want. Perhaps starting with lunch today?

Yes, my Latin brother, I have checked the Rheims, Confraternity, Jerusalem, NAB old and new. That is why I read the critical and recieved texts when I study scripture, as I have learned from my Eastern brothers, there are two lungs to the Church, but I get frustrated when deciding which to chose.

james

Hear ya.

During the week, Wednesdays and Fridays are traditional days of fasting. These two days are thematically based on the Cross and Passion. I don't know what one means by the Church regressing on the issue of fasting. Which Church?

The guidelines for fasting are set by our bishops. What does the CCC have to do with it?
Rev. Kenneth Collins, a minister in the Disciples of Christ Church, writes:

"The ancient Jews fasted on Mondays and Thursdays. The ancient church fasted on Wednesdays and Fridays, because they believed that Jesus commanded them to observe those days as fast days; Wednesday to commemorate His betrayal, and Friday to commemorate His crucifixion. (This is recorded in the Apostolic Constitutions, Book 5, Section 3, which the Orthodox Churches still use as a manual of church discipline.) So it has been historically customary for Christians to fast on Wednesdays and Fridays."

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-07/anf07-45.htm#P6236_2183951

There are also four (4) traditional fasting period/seasons in the Byzantine Church.

There is also the issue of the incompatability of the Eucharist with fasting.

https://www.byzcath.org/faith/menaion/phillips_fast.htm

http://www.byzantinecatholic.org/LentPascha/page3.htm

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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

The practice of fasting is one of many Jewish practices the earliest Christians kept, and which Orthodox Christians continue to keep to this day. Fasting typically involves abstaining from most meat, dairy, wine, and oil products, rather than abstaining from all food. Thus the fasting guidelines resemble vegetarianism, and most vegetarian recipes are appropriate during fasts. Monastaries typically have stricter fasting rules. The time and type of fast is generally uniform for all Orthodox Christians living within a particular jurisdiction; the times of fasting are part of the ecclesial calendar. In this way, the whole church fasts together, and the whole church feasts together (when the fast is broken). Young children, women who are pregnant or breastfeeding, and people with other medical needs are often encouraged not to follow the usual fasting guidelines, but to work out alternatives with their priest or spiritual elder. Also, if someone wishes to follow a stricter fast, they are generally encouraged to do so only under the guidance of their priest or spiritual elder.

The major fasting periods are Great Lent (40+ days leading up to Pascha (Easter), the Feast of the Resurrection); Winter Lent (also known as Philip's Fast or Nativity Fast, 40+ days leading up to Christmas or the Feast of the Nativity); about 15 days leading up to the Feast of the Dormition of the Theotokos (the falling asleep of the Virgin Mary) on August 15; the Apostle's Fast, leading up to the Feast of Saints Peter and Paul, Prime Apostles; a few other shorter fasts; and on Wednesdays and Fridays during most of the rest of the year. Wednesday fasts are in remembrance of Judas Iscariot's betrayal of Jesus Christ and of the prostitute who anointed Jesus with ointment, and Friday fasts are in remembrance of Christ's crucifixion and death. There is also a complete fast (all food and drink) from midnight Saturday night until after reception of the Holy Eucharist on Sunday, and similar fasting before receiving the Eucharist on other days. The exact number of fasting days often varies from year to year, as the dates of various feasts change, but usually more than half of the days in a year are spent in some form of fast. See the Eastern Orthodox section of the liturgical year article.

Fasting without prayer was often called the "fast of demons" by the Church fathers, since the demons neither eat nor pray. Therefore, fasting should always be accompanied by prayer. Also, fasting is connected with almsgiving, since avoiding meat is intended partly to free up money that can then be used to feed the poor and provide for other charitable causes.

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Joe

Brother Joe,

I brought this up regarding the Western Church's lack of fasting in comparison to the Eastern Church.

LatinTrad,

The only site I found with the old rule of fasting with a calender is http://traditio.com/ca.htm.


With permission and respect for my Eastern brethern .


james

JOe,
Within the Western Church, only Fridays are observed as a day of abstinence, not a day of fasting. Western Catholics are to abstaine from eating Meat on Fridays year round, most just think this is for Lent.

That being said, I do believe that a Western Catholic can eat meat on a Friday if they perform some other form of penance on that day.

As for fasting. It is a different thing in the West. To fast one only eats one main meal during the day. You can eat up to additional meals during the day as long as they do not equal (when added together) the main meal in size.

At least this is what I have been told by Western Catholics.


David

James,

Probably due to the preference of the Alexandrian text over the Textus Receptus. The Alexandrian tradition does not have "fasting" in 1 Cor. 7:5.

This can be seen in the undisputed precedence of the uncial, Codex Vaticanus (4th Century).

Many fine examples of papyri fragments give excellent witness to the Alexandrian text too such as Papyrus Bodmer XVII and Papyrus Bodmer XIV-XV (late 2nd c.).

Those defending the Textus Receptus or Majority Text have the burden of proving that the earliest extent manuscripts have these 'missing' words or phrases. Most defenses have been based on theological reasons, not textual reasons.

It has nothing to do with heretics and liberals.

Joe

If *all* references to fasting throughout the Bibles you searched had been removed, you might be able to make a case that it was for theological reasons. However, I would be willing to bet the farm (if I had one ) that there are still plenty of fasting verses left.

1 Cor 7:5 is only one case. Byzantine manuscripts DO include "fasting." The choice to leave out a particular word or phrase is not due to liberalism or heresy, but the choice of text for translation.

The Catholic NAB does not have "fasting" included:

http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians7.htm

The New Testament was redone for the NAB and was based on the 25th edition of the Greek Nestle-Aland text, a manuscript derived from textual scholarship. I hardly doubt that any contemporary translation of the NT is based solely on one manuscript tradition, but on a more ecclectic one (a text arrived at by selecting the BEST text for each word and/or verse).

The same goes for The Jerusalem Bible.

Two interesting and significant changes are happening in some churches: (1) the gradual acknowledgement and acceptance of the Septuagint in the OT and (2) the gradual acceptance of the purity of the earlier Alexandrian manuscripts for the NT. Both will have major influence in translations and newer editions, namely the reluctant acceptance of the so-called Apocrypha (or Deutero-canonicals) by the Protestants.

There are many examples of the early church "fasting" in the Bible (cf. Acts 13:2, 3; 14:23).

Joe

Brother Joe,

The other prayer and fasting passages are :

Matt 17: 21 and Mk 9:29

They are in the text of the Rheims & Confraternity as well as KJV/NKJV.

Passages noted in footnotes are not part of the main text in my opinion.

james