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Dear Amado, Dear Marc, and whoever else is interested:

There is a (Catholic) Society of Saint Osmund in England these days, which organizes Sarum Masses on an occasional basis, providing music, books for the people, books for the Altar, and sometimes organizing choirs - they do an excellent job. These Masses are exclusively in Latin; no Catholic authority has given any approval for a vernacular version (which is not to say that it could not happen some time). There have been occasional celebrations for as far back as anyone knows, although no Catholic parish or community retained the Sarum Use as its primary way of serving. The English College in Rome has such occasional celebrations from time to time. The use of the Sarum Missal was never forbidden to Catholics; it merely became a rarity.

Anglicans - I'm told that some places use the Sarum Liturgy (normally in English, of course) more or less frequently, but I've never attended an Anglican celebration of the Sarum Liturgy, so I've no firm information.

Outside England: apart from the English College in Rome, mentioned above, I'm not aware of any Catholics using the Sarum Missal, but then again that doesn't prove that it doesn't happen; I simply don't know.
There would probably be no difficulty arranging such celebrations on an occasional basis, much as the Mozarabic Liturgy is sometimes permitted (there used to be - and may still be - a popular celebration of the Mozarabic Liturgy in Saint Patrick's Cathedral, New York every year on Columbus Day; I've no idea why).

Incognitus

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Slava Isusu Christu! Slava Va Niki!

Greetings to all. Incognitus, thank you for discussing the Sarum Mass. Searching via Google, I discovered a group from Columbia University in NY that conducts Complines and Vespers in the Sarum Rite style. This link [columbia.edu] discusses the history of the Sarum rite, and this link [columbia.edu] provides the equivalent of the home page of the group.

Here is a quick excerpt:

Quote
SARUM sings the office of Compline every Sunday evening at St. Paul's Chapel on the campus of Columbia University, at 116th Street and Broadway.

The Sarum Rite
"Sarum Rite," or "Use of Sarum," refers to the body of liturgical ritual, text, and music used at the Cathedral of Salisbury, in southern England, in the later Middle Ages. That liturgy, in the 13th century, became the standard for many English non-monastic institutions -- cathedrals (e.g. Hereford), minsters (e.g. York, Lincoln), churches, chapels, and colleges -- up to the time of the Reformation in the 16th century. It differed from the Roman Rite of the time by having some of its own melodies and texts, and celebrating its own local feasts. Even where (as is mostly true) it used the same material as Rome, its melodies often had distinctive variants.

For example, one of the glories of the Sarum repertory is the Marian antiphon Salve regina celorum, in the special and unique form in which SARUM sings it from time to time at the Compline of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Not only does the melody of the antiphon vary strikingly from the Roman, but it has in addition a "trope" exclusive to England: five stanzas of devotional poetry, set to an exquisitely distinctive melody. These verses are interleaved with the final acclamations of the antiphon to produce a haunting effect in the closing minutes of Compline.

The Sarum Rite supplied the foundation for the post-Reformation liturgy and music of the Church of England after the break with Rome in the 1530s. Moreover, its melodies form the musical basis for the golden era of English polyphony in the Tudor and Elizabethan periods. To perform the liturgy of the Sarum Rite is thus, among other things, to explore the roots of the Anglican liturgy.
I learned something new today.

God is great! Amen.

Michael

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Also, here is the Sarum Mass link:

http://www.odox.net/Liturgy1-Sarum.htm

The Liturgy of St. Peter the Apostle,
also called the Liturgy of St. Gregory the Great, as Preserved in Old England, i.e.,
the Sarum Mass---with simplified rubrics--English translation by Fr. Hieromonk Aidan (Keller)
(c) 1998 St. Hilarion Press


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The Bracaran usage, which is also still permitted although hardly ever used, is a variant of the Sarum Rite. Details are scarce but it is thought that it was brought to Portugal by English crusaders who came to help with the christian conquest of what is now Portugal.
I have been buying all books about the Bracaran rite I can get my hands on so as to be able to study it better one day. I also met a young priest from the Archdiocese who has been charged with studying the usage so as, I hope, to begin to use it more regularly.
After VCII when the Novus Ordo was introduced, Bracaran Clergy became bi-ritual but almost every single one "switched" to novus ordo and the Bracaran usage became almost lost. Some older priests still know how to celebrate in it, hopefully there will be a comeback.
I am hoping, in the near future, to organize a Bracaran rite mass near Lisbon, for friends.
I wonder how similar this usage is to the Sarum rite you have been describing?
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I believe that Queen Mary Tudor, of most blessed memory, sponsored the publication of the Sarum Missal and other books for the divine services of that Usage.

There was never any "cut-off" moment, but as Jesuits became increasingly involved with the English Mission they of course used the Roman Missal and use of the Sarum Missal became increasingly rare. Recently it is re-appearing to some extent.

Incognitus

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All,

Here is a link that I have found for the Anglican Book of Common Prayer 1928 edition.

This is the official liturgy in use by the traditional Anglican movement.


1928 BCP-Anglican Liturgy [anglicanmichigan.org]


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Hmmm... I don't have any insight into what will actually happen. However, the many different recensions of the one Byzantine Rite each seem to have their own sui juris Church. So, it doesn't seem to me to be all that far-fetched to suggest that the Anglican Usage (after all, what's the difference between a "Usage" and a "recension"?) of the Latin Rite could have its own sui juris Church as well.

On the other hand, if one looks at the Patriarchate of the West historically, none of the smaller ritual traditions (Mozarabic, Ambrosian, Gallican, etc.) has ever received its own sui juris Church. Has any justification for this difference between how western traditions and eastern recensions are treated been put forth? I'm curious.

As for what I personally think ought to happen (which doesn't count for much), I think it would be great if a sui juris Church within the Catholic Church were created for those who come from the Anglican Communion and want to retain their unique traditions, while fully embracing the Catholic Faith.


Peace,
Alex


Quote
Originally posted by Amadeus:
Dear ProC:

Since reading this news item a few weeks ago, I have been waiting for you to take it up as this is your "baby!" wink

This is good news.

But I personally think that TAC would not be granted a "sui juris" status like the Eastern Catholic Churches because, for one, TAC's rituals are an offshoot of the Roman Rite. TAC does not represent a ritual that is "original" or "ancient."

At best, Rome would extend to TAC the pastoral provisions which allow the "Anglican Use" (in the U.S.) and, now, wherever there are TAC parishes.

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Up until recently, it was claimed that the ritual distinctions in the West were territorial, not personal - this was never convincing, in view of the several liturgies of the older religious orders. Now it's not convincing at all, since there are Roman parishes in the Archdiocese of Milan and of course Roman parishes in what is presumably "Mozarabic territory". The six or seven "Anglican Use" parishes are all part of Roman dioceses at the moment - and, interestingly, the priests who serve them can never be appointed bishops. Go figure.
The situation will change when and if a sufficiently large group obtains admission to the Catholic Church with authorization to maintain a distinct super-parochial structure.

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Incognitus wrote:

Quote
The six or seven "Anglican Use" parishes are all part of Roman dioceses at the moment - and, interestingly, the priests who serve them can never be appointed bishops. Go figure.
The obvious reason being that these ex-Episcopalian priests/pastors are married.

Both East and West do not ordain married priests as Bishops, don't we?

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Quote
Originally posted by ProCatholico:
I do not suspect that there would be anything barring the creation of an "Anglican Church" with sui juris status.

Moreover, I would reject the suggestion that the Anglicans would be subjected to local Roman ordinaries.
Why?

Anglican ritual and spirituality isn't *that* different from Roman Catholic.

On the other hand, even isolated diaspora parishes of sui juris Eastern Catholic Churches end up under the local Roman ordinary. Do you see Rome rushing to ordain a bishop for either the Belarussian or Russian Greco-Catholics? The tiny Belarussian Greco-Catholic Mission in London, lead by an aging priest, is losing a probable future pastor (a married seminary graduate) - their communty is under the local Roman bishop and he, backed by Rome, has said "No" ordaining this man.

OTOH, Belarussian and Russian ECs fall under the category of "Ost politik" so maybe the Anglo-Catholics will get what they want.

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

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Dear Amado - that reason is not entirely obvious. First, there are such people as unmarried Anglican clergymen. Second, to the best of my knowledge there is no canonical impediment to a widowed priest becoming a bishop.

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I've been following this discussion for the last week or so and thought that I would invite you to see how many of these "continuing Anglican Churches" there are throughout the USA and outside. You might want to go to


http://anglicansonline.org/communion/nic.html

There are over 60 of these listed. Perhaps if they could get together they might be able to form one Anglican body within the Roman Communion.

I don't have a dog in this fight. Just wanted to let you see how many churches there are.


Fr. Mike

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Shlomo Fr. Mike,

What Roman Communion?

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

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I've been following this discussion for the last week or so and thought that I would invite you to see how many of these "continuing Anglican Churches" there are throughout the USA and outside. You might want to go to


http://anglicansonline.org/communion/nic.html

There are over 60 of these listed. Perhaps if they could get together they might be able to form one Anglican body within the Roman Communion.

I don't have a dog in this fight. Just wanted to let you see how many churches there are.


Fr. Mike

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Fr Mike,

You can't be posting the same post repeatedly.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
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Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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