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Hello. I've got a question that was assigned to me: What is the the Eastern Church's stance on capital punishment. Thanks!


-Mike

Nothing unique. Eastern and Western Catholics, I presume, are on the same page on this. I can't see what in the Catholic Church's teaching is particular to only one part.

As for the Orthodox, it is more complicated. Would it be acceptable at least to narrow the question to Orthodox in the USA?

Axios

Slacker520,
Are you Mike Williams or Newman?

Orthodox in the U.S., please.

I am not "Newman" so yea, I'm Mike W.

Check the most recent edition of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Then post it on this forum. If you need further help, I will assist you.

Axios

You say you "presume" both are on the same page. Does that mean you are not entirely sure of the Eastern position?

Protodeacon

I have looked at the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Do you mean the east & west are on the same page on this? What is the postion of the Orthodox church?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church presents the current teaching of the Eastern Catholic Churches on the death penalty. Presuming that you have read the pertinent sections you will realize that the death penalty would only be used in those situations where the civil community could not protect its members from grave and mortal harm. The Catechism makes it clear that this is very unlikely to happen given the penal systems available.

To the best of my knowledge the Orthodox Churches do not have an official teaching on the death penalty. The history of the Orthodox Churches on this matter varies according to time and place. If you are serious about what the Orthodox Churches teach on this matter, you should contact each one and ask if they have an official stance on the death penalty. I suspect you will get a variety of different answers depending on the individual who answers.

In Christ,

David Kennedy, Protodeacon

Dear Protodeacon David,

I often wondered how one actually distinguishes what is Eastern Catholic teaching in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC)? If it presents the Eastern Catholic teaching on capital punishment then does the CCC also present Eastern Catholic teachings on everything else? If not, how do you discern when it is and when it is not giving an Eastern Catholic teaching? Just wondering.

In the area of catechesis, I read in a Ukrainian Catholic directive that the first order of business is teaching the doctrine of Theosis. How does the CCC go about accomplishing this? I looked up "Theosis" in the CCC's Index and it wasn't there. I then looked it up on the Internet search engine and no matches were found. I did the same for "Deification" and no results either.

I'm not doubting that our hierarchs are not in sync with the rest of the Catholic Communion on this issue, but if the CCC cannot address the first Eastern doctrine mandated by the Ukrainian directives, then how can one feel confident that the CCC represents the Eastern Christian tradition in everything else? What means do you personally use to discern? This is interesting.

Please help,
Cantor Joe Thur

[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: J Thur ]

Dear Cantor and Mentor Joe,

You raise a most interesting point!

My own view is that the CCC is, in fact, a Latin document that contains the spirituality of the Latin West in almost every respect.

It does mention the Jesus Prayer and some other aspects of Eastern theology, but it is largely a western document, as was the Vatican II document on the Eastern Churches.

However, I think that the area of capital punishment is a moral one that can be discussed without reference to spirituality.

We accept the moral teachings of the Catholic Church without equivocation on absolute principles etc.

Even the Orthodox often made use of "Blessed" Thomas Aquinas (as they referred to him) for moral theology, not having a systemic theologian of their own in this department.

John Meyendorff (+memory eternal) even quotes a prayer of one Orthodox devotee of St Thomas Aquinas (patron of Catholic schools as you know) and says that, had Thomas not been born in the West, he would never have defended the Filioque!

Alex

Alex,
I must respectfully say, that your view is not the view of the Catholic Church.

As the Holy Father stated in the Apostolic Constitution / Fidei Depositum (On the publication of the Catechism of the Catholic Church)

Here is a quote from it (emphasis added);

I think this shows the intent, that this is the Catechism of the (Universal) Catholic Church and that is should be used as a baseline for the various particular Churches own Catechisms.

Respectfully,
David

Dear David,

I don't deny the truth of what you say.

I only say that, when it comes to spirituality, it is a Latin document. That doesn't mean that it wasn't written for all Catholics of whatever Rite or Church.

If my Church created its own document for universal teaching, it too would reflect its Particular spirituality.

It is impossible for any Particular Church, including the Particular Latin Church, not to reflect in its teaching and thinking the substance of what its spirituality is all about.

The same is true of Vatican II's document on the Eastern Churches, as Eastern Catholic and Orthodox commentators have said.

Sorry if I've given offense.

Alex

Alex,
No offense given. Actually I must beg forgivness, I didn't really understand what you were saying.

I agree with you that the CCC, while written for the Universial Catholic Church, is written from a Latin perspective as to the spirituality used.


Your brother in Christ,
David

David,

Maybe it needs to be explained what is meant by the CCC being "a point of reference" in the creation of other catechisms as our bishops receive directives to do so?

I've heard a number of Byzantine Catholics quote the CCC, but it stops there like most "points of reference." The catechisms of our own particular churches and traditions are rarely, if ever, quoted.

Thank you,
Joe

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: J Thur ]

Dear David,

No offence taken, Big Guy, no need to apologise!

You raised an excellent point, one that needed to be made, after all.

Our Scriptural Scholar, Joe Thur, makes a great point as well (have you visited his scriptural thread yet? I wish I knew as much about the Bible as I do about church politics!).

One way of addressing this issue is by making our own, as much as possible, the great Eastern Cathechisms, such as that of John Damascus and of Peter Mohyla and incorporating these perspectives into an Eastern approach to modern-day issues, such as capital punishment.

Orthodox theologians who have written on these subjects can be consulted as well, as they reflect the same perspectives that we have (and I know that not all of them are like our strident friend, OrthodoxyorDeath ).

But Joe Thur makes a solid point that is really unassailable.

Alex

Joe,
I don't really know of any "catechisms of our own particular churches and traditions".

If you are speaking of the Light for Life series, its not really a catechism, can't really quote from it all that well, no index to carry along with it, no references back to the CCC.

All in all I would have to say that if the Light for Life series is to be the catechism of the Eastern Catholic Churches, it has fallen short, IMHO.


David