www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Prayer please pray for me

Please pray for me. This is embarassing, but I need help. I am battling temptations to be afraid of Jesus -- that I will somehow have my personality destroyed or lobotomized if I fully give myself over to Jesus Christ. I try to look at the examples of the saints and to see how they are actually fulfilled by Christ. And, I know that my fear is irrational. But, the fear persists nevertheless. Please pray for me that I will ask Jesus to help me overcome this fear of Him. Thank you.

-- John

I will pray for you, but a healthy fear is not a bad thing.

I've just been reading more about Sts. Theresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross. They both talk about suffering as a pathway to oneness with God. Not bad for Westerners.

CDL

I'll pray for you Harmon, and don't worry. If you follow Christ, he won't become your robot master. Instead he'll perfect you in love, faith, truth and goodness. And despite that you'll still have plenty of freedom, and sometimes difficult choices to make for yourself.

Prayers...

james

You'll be OK, trust in the Lord

Prayers...

Our Father who art in heaven
Hallowed be thy name
Thy kingdom come
Thy will be done
On earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day our daily bread
And forgive us our tresspasses
As we forgive those who tresspass agianst us
Lead us not into temptation
But deliver us from evil...

May the Lord God help and comfort you, free you from fear, and confirm you in grace! May the Mother of God, Mother of Christians, enfold you in the mantle of her protection.

Prayers.

Logos Teen

Prayers.

John... I just noticed this and I will address it soon.

I am so happy that you spoke up about this. Many do not.

I will post soon.

Peace be to you, and liberty and freedom.

-ray

>I am battling temptations to be afraid of Jesus
>that I will somehow have my personality destroyed
>or lobotomized if I fully give myself over to Jesus Christ

Lawrence said �

>If you follow Christ, he won't become your robot master

And that is absolutely right. I second that observation and expereince.

Doing God�s Will - is not the close following of rules and laws and such� although we can be mistaken and believe it is.

There is a common theology (the belief of many) that we are to toe the line of all rules and guidance etc� and this places Christian into a behavioral modification like philosophy. In effect - the adherence to following rules and formula that (if done correctly and if we have identified the correct set and correct church as opposed to the incorrect church and incorrect theology) then our faithful adherence to the rules and theology and laws and ceremonies and rites etc� will produce within us � sanctification.

This type of view, in the OT, is called the period of Deuteronomy Reforms and the result of it was the party of the Pharisees.

It is an impossible way that just does not work.

What is absent form such an idea is the reality of Providence and the importance of conscience.

When one lacks a proper concept of Providence and sees it only as the acts of God in overall history� then Providence is emptied of its - personality - its person. It becomes simply a plan .. Laid out before hand � that is being inevitably fulfilled (yup - that sounds much like a dead thing to me)� and not a person (the living person of the resurrected Jesus). This type of concept (give up one�s own will and blindly follow the rules) is one of fate and destiny where one must do things right as opposed to wrong. It is a misconception of �dying to self�.

Your fear is not irrational - it is simply the result of a very popular misconception of what doing the Will of God - is all about.

First, may I point out that Jesus made a difference between this kind of view (robot like following the points of the law) and his own views� by saying that there are two types of people� servants (of God) and friends (of God).

The servant follows commands and rules and is not a friend of the king � while the �friend of the king� has a friendship (meaning to retain ones own personality and will) relationship with the King. And about his apostles Jesus said �I call you friends.� which right away discounts servants and those who really do not know the mind and will of God. They may know - about it (intellectually) but they do not know it intimately (a union).

I would be sure that you - have some friends? Yes? And your treatment of them is really not that they follow your every desire without question� no? There is rather a give and take and each retains his own personality. That is the same definition that God uses.

No where, in the gospels, does Jesus require (or even ask) blind obedience. No. Rather he treated the apostles as real human friendship would. He was understanding, patient, sat and talked things over with them, did not hound them for their mistakes and their misunderstandings� and at times was infuriated and frustrated by them. Now would not it have been eaier for him to just wave his hand and have them automatically have robot like obedience?? Apparently - that is not what he wanted or he would have saved us all the trouble and done it that way.

All we humans have to offer (we are incapable of anything further) is our human friendship. And trust me - that is all he wants and no more. Nothing greater - because we have nothing greater. Jesus was well aware beforehand of how their human friendship would often fail (like Peter denying that he ever even knew Jesus) and if he wanted robots he would have waved his hand to prevent such failures. Think about that. Real human friendship can ONLY come from our own freedom of will and mind to give it.

We, who are not theologians (and therefore not assigned the task) who argue and debate the semantics of theology - really just waste our time. It is a substitution of rules and regulations - for what should be the mystery of daily attention to conscience� and nothing more.

Conscience� is the living Temple in which God speaks to us. A man who pays attention to his conscience - fulfills - all the Law. A man who substitutes the items of the Law for attention to his own conscience - will always fail at some aspect of the rules and in failing one � he fails them all. So says St. Paul.

Would you not agree with me - that a man who follows his conscience is indeed becoming more human? More whole? More free? And more - himself?

Between the dual actions of daily Providence (God�s arrangement of the events in our lives) and � attention to conscience � there will some things which will be not easy or to our liking. As CDL said �suffering as a pathway to oneness..� but this suffering is temporary and not long in duration. The purpose of it is not the suffering itself (for suffering by itself does nothing to advance our holiness)� rather it is the temporary suffering likened to a man who is trying to stop smoking or and alcoholic who is not going for that drink his body wants so badly. It would be a mistaken view to imagine that our life is to be all suffering and close attention to following so many rules to perfection.

The suffering of the saints is: that God may, for a season, ask us (or even force us) to change in some way � but the sun comes out again and we are now even more free and liberated than we had been before.

The fear of God spoken about in the OT is further understood in the NT � and replaced by friendship and love (not emotional love). I doubt that your human friendships are based upon emotional feels for these people who are you friends - it is something more free and less demanding. Yes.. At times it can be emotional but that is not the basis of your friendship. And neither is it the basis of our friendship with God.

And so examine a bit the causes of your being afraid of Jesus and expecting that sanctification requires a lose of our own personality� (you gave a great description! Lobotomized!) for at the heart of this fear are misconceptions (yet common to many).

I wish I could explain it better.

We all will mention you in our prayers.
-ray

Dear John,

From the time I accepted Christ, I became very devout. Yet throughout all the years of my prayers, I was never able to give myself fully to my Lord.

I guess it was fear, but I eventually overcame it...and that included my 'pride', and gave myself fully to Him.

But my circumstances were unique, since my situation was such that I was forced, (through family), into continuous contact with some that delved into the occult.

Don't worry about it, but merely ask God for that Grace, and He will certainly answer. Believe me, our prayers are not needed in the long run...but they will help you eliminate you fears quicker. You have my prayers.

Love in Christ,

Zenovia

John,
Did You ever look at it this way?
That when you fully give yourself to Christ, the will be when you fully become who you are.
Its not negative but positive. You will reach your full potential. Right now we are all limping along.
BE ALL THAT YOU CAN BE!
Stephanos I

Thank you, all of you, dear ones, for your replies and your prayers.

I am going through a trying situation --no way out but forward-- but it's appropriate because it's Lent.

I thank you all for your encouragement and your wisdom. May God bless you all. This Forum and its members are in my prayers.

-- John

>That when you fully give yourself to Christ,
>the will be when you fully become who you are.

It remains a mystery John...

but...

forward, forward, forward, and hope when there seems to be no hope.

>Don't worry about it,
>but merely ask God for that Grace,

A lot of good advise in this thread.

Peace be to you in your abandonment.

-ray