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A Muslim physicist came to my work to give a symposium. He was a native a Bagdhad and educated in the Catholic schools of that city. He was also a member of the local mosque.

His talk was to tell us of the basics of Islam and why Osama Bin Laden is the terrorist that he is.

After outlining the basic beliefs of Islam he told us that a jihad against the United States was contrary to the Islamic religion. Reason being is that a Muslim nation, Saudi Arabia has a treaty with the U.S. According to the Koran if a Muslim nation has a treaty with a non-Muslim country then the non-Muslim country is an ally to all Muslims.

Where the fanaticism comes in is that there is one tribe in Saudi Arabia that believes that Islam should be forced by the sword on all. This position is rejected by all leaders of Islam. It no coincidence that Osama Bin Laden belongs to this tribe. These 10,000 tribe members are the instigators of terrorism around the world.

This helps me to understand that Islam is not the enemy. A few Islamic extremest are the source of terrorism.

Paul

Dear ByzanTN,

LOL! That won't be an easy task!

I agree!

Then perhaps the prophecy which every Greek has learned and passed on since the fall of Constantinople, might one day ring true...

(roughly translated):
By and by, through the years and the ages, Constantinople will be ours once again!

In Christ,
Alice

Dear Paul,

You are blatantly wrong in your conclusion, and by presenting this wrong conclusion publicly you may be assisting others to believe the lie that you believe. Islam is the enemy of Orthodox Christians. Islam is another source of terrorism. Your conclusion is even more wrong then to tell us that communism is not a source of terrorism while both destroy Churches and kill people in the process, both are Anti-Christian at the core of what they teach. If you choose to believe what a Muslim physicist tells you instead of the Orthodox Church you are making a mistake that will lead to additional mistakes.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

Dear Matthew,

Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus,

I don't mind that you disagree with my conclusion. I would, however, like to see some quotes from the Koran and the Orthodox Church documents related to the matter of Islam's relations with Christians. I must admit that I have no references to cite. The physicist did give quotes from the Koran which were compelling, however I don't have the text of his presentation.

Paul

Dear Paul,

You may find this website very informative. I heard the author of the book this website correlates to on a radio talk show and his arguments and research were quite compelling. I must add that he was also incredibly intellectual and a most educated and eloquent speaker.

www.prophetofdoom.net [prophetofdoom.net]

Fondly in Christ,
Alice

Alice:
Thanks for the website. I am going to read that book. Has it passed through your mind as well as mine, that the founders of most other religions were somewhat lacking in character? I haven't encountered a single religion that had a founder who could live up to the example set by Christ.

Dear ByzanTN,

My priest says that he thinks about that all the time....

I agree!

Fondly in Christ,
Alice

I have not been online for a few days, and I see this thread is deteriorating into the usual divisions when Islam is discussed.
I think we all can agree that there is much in early Islam to support those who see it as warlike; after all their founder led armies. I am sure one can find all sorts of things in the Koran to support this view. But then one could "prove" from the Old Testament that Judaism is a genocidal religion bent on destroying other peoples. In fact religions evolve, and from what I know we can hope that Islam can evolve.
There is certainly an element in Islam that is bent on world domination and does not recognize any moral law in warfare. But then, doesn't that description also fit the USA?
What I object to is this demonization of the enemy, this process of dehumanization [they are a "cancer"] that historically has led to atrocities in the name of righteousness. In fact there is no people that has not commited horrible atrocities in war. This is always preceeded by seeing the enemy as the Other instead of as a brother.

PS Please see Pani Rose's thread on "school seige" over on the Town Hall to document Muslim outrage and sorrow for the atrocities in Russia.

I am afraid there is much in contemporary Islam to support those who see it as warlike.

The very true fact that people in the past have committed atrocities is not an excuse for continuing to commit them. I am not advocating wiping out that religion, only finding a way for the rest of the world to protect itself from Islam.

True, they do evolve. Much of that evolution in Christianity is because many of it's "followers" no longer really believe in it. I hope Islam does evolve, but we can't let it wipe us all out while we are waiting.

I am not sure the motives for the USA are religious or bent on world domination. The US tends to blunder into situations it never really understood to begin with. Also, a grave weakness in our system is that our foreign policies can change every four years depending on who is elected. That has to have driven other nations crazy in trying to deal with us for two centuries.

Friends,

I am not an apologist for Islam. Like a priest said, "Islam is where Arianism found a home."
Islam is incompatible with the Catholic faith. But, mysteriously, God mercy knows no bounds, hence Muslims can come to Christ, true God and true man.

Craig Winn is a fundamentalist Christian. I would read his book with caution.


Second Vatican Council, Nostra Aetate 3, October 28, 1965
"The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth (Cf. St. Gregory VII, Letter III, 21 to Anazir [Al-Nasir], King of Mauretania PL, 148. 451A.), who has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God's plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his Virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting.

"Over the centuries many quarrels and dissensions have arisen between Christians and Muslims. The sacred Council now pleads with all to forget the past, and urges that a sincere effort be made to achieve mutual understanding; for the benefit of all men, let them together preserve and promote peace, social justice and moral values."

Paul

Ah, Paul. Now there's the rub. That only works if BOTH sides do it.

Yes, I affirm your statement. But, someone must make the first move. Catholic relief organizations have been for years promoting peace, social justice and moral values with Muslims. Christ's peace will bear fruit.

Paul

Dear all,

I know this is going to sound unloving, but I give thanks to God that Orthodox Christians do not have anything to do with what Vatican II has stated, for Islam doe not believe in Christ's peace, it never has taught that it rejects Christianity and what Christianity teaches.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

I have to agree with Matthew, here...and with Alice. To all others here who have said that not all Muslims are warlike, this is true enough. The Muslims who do not understand their religion are NOT bent on the destruction of Christians and Jews. Those that DO, ARE. I use as an example the millions of Christians who do not KNOW their faith, or do not practice what they know...prayer, fasting, almsgiving, visiting the sick, those in prison, or other life rules we were given by Christ. I continually here heople misstating what their religion believes. I would like to point out, re: the Muslim lecturer, that had his family been strictly observant Muslims, he would NEVER have been sent to a Catholic school, anymore than devout Orthodox or Catholics would be sent to a Hillel or Islamic School. So, I put it to you that the gentleman's view of Islam is probably skewed WAY OFF. I can quote parts of the Bible that make it look like a hate document...this does not mean I would be right about Christianity if I did so. I point out that pre-Medina, when the Prophet was trying to suck up to Judaism, he wrote flatteringly, and when they rejected Islam, he began to toss in more and more anti Christian and anti-Semitic "divinely inspired" verses...the latter taking preference over the former. Now, do I mean that because of this, we should hate devout Muslims? NO! Christianity tells us not to hate. Should we allow ourselves to be blinded to the fact that if all Muslims got religion (theirs) they would pose a significantly greater danger to Christianity precisely BECAUSE many of us do NOT believe they are anything more than peaceful, and misunderstood? Love thy neighbour, (even if a Muslim) but do not be blinded to a potential threat. And, remember at ALL times that innocents are being killed on both sides, and that any human with a scrap of love in his heart would mourn the deaths of so many children...so, yes, this means even Muslims. The religion is dangerous, but it is followed by PEOPLE, who have hearts and feelings that may (because they do not follow it) be in opposition to their faith. These are the people we can hope to influence by becoming an icon of Christ's love toward them...(while discreetly watching them). Hating the sinner for the evil they created is not Christian...hate the sin, and see how the sinner may be led from sinning more, toward an understanding of Christ, and a desire no repent, and reform...that is the way Our Lord desired us to act.

Gaudior, who sorrows for those families who lost loved ones, and for the world, in the wake of this new disaster men have created.