www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Greek Bishop Brands Turks "Barbarians"

Dear Alice:

But is it not the goal of apostilic Christianity to evangelize and, thus, in its own way, trample other religions as well?

Yours,

hal

Yea, the Pope and some Orthodox hierarchs as well, fight for the recognition of the "Christian roots" of the European civilization in their "Constitution", which is in fact nothing.

It seems we're all failing to understand that the inclusion of these two words whatever they mean, only represents an historical event of the past to explain how Christianity was important at the beggining but developped into a more "advanced" religion of "trascendent" Humanism, "Global Fraternity" and all that filthy trash they are forcing us to "eat". The Protestants will only want to add the testimony of their cheap "free-trade" version of Christ into the documents that will give birth to the global dictatorship.

And on the other side, the Turkish government also holds the "light" version of Islam so there's no problem. Maybe they'll find a place for Islam in the European Constitution. Eeveryone is invited to the all happy family of the New World Order!

Dear Halychanyn,

I believe that the problem with evangelizing to those of the Islamic faith is this: if you are a Muslim and convert to Christianity, (atleast in the more fundamentalist countries) you can be put to death.

Islam, in my opinion, is a very strong cult. There is no freedom to convert to anything.

If only you lived the tension of very recent history between Greece and Turkey you would understand how complex this is. The Turks will not allow much in the way of Orthodox Christianity in Constantinople (Istanbul), and have committed terrible atrocities to Christians in Greece just a century ago under the Ottoman rule. There is one monastery on the island where my husband's family comes from, where the skulls and bones are stacked up from a slaughter of Turks. These people, children included, ran to the monastery for protection. Their blood still stains the marble in the Church sanctuary. They had no regard for our religion,and were NEVER converted in 400 years of their occupation. Orthodoxy survived by going underground. They STILL have no regard for our religion, and have systematically been trying to eradicate every single Greek Orthodox from Asia Minor...which was once a thriving Christian community.

I doubt very much that they will be converted. They want rights, but give no rights. Our Theological School in Halki,(Turkey) the best Greek Orthodox Theological School in the world, is still closed after many decades and many promises. I don't think a leopard changes its spots..especiallly if its religion is Islam. Sorry.

Sorrowfully,
Alice

The HEADS of the EU??!

You obviously have no idea how the European Union is governed, do you?

Christian

I'm sorry, Alice, but this statement is just plainly biggoted!

I'm no friend of Islam, but to say that it doesn't matter if a Muslim country is secular or not, because they will always have a "Muslim mentality"? Why not say "Muslim DNA"??

Christian

By the term "heads" of the UE I refered to its leading countries Britain, France, Germany, secular and protestant countries.

=> Orthodox SWE - twice; there's nothing more to say!

Many years,

Neil

France is a Catholic country, although secular as most countries in Europe.

The EU has a system of revolving precidency. At the moment Catholic Italy holds the precidency.

After the EU is enlarged next year, *VERY* Catholic Poland will hold the precidency at some point...

Christian

Dear OrthodoxSWE, Christian,

We all come from our own unique cultural perspectives and experiences. My experience, as one who has lived in Greece, and is of Greek extraction, is different than yours.

Also, my experience as an American, hearing the leading Muslim spokesperson of Islam in London, England, blatantly say on television, after the 9/11 attacks, that the goal of Islam is to have its flag waving on the White House, is also different than yours.

Having said that, in a previous thread, I also said that culturally (not religiously, obviously), Turks and Greeks have much in common, and on an individual level, can get along quite well. My son has made a few good friends in Washington, D.C. at his university that are from Turkey, and my husband and I have also been honored to meet many good, hospitable and friendly Turkish people. I rejoice in that.

What I believe about the mentality of a religion, (in this case, Islam), is very different than what I believe about the innate goodness of the individual person created in the image of God..Muslim, Jew, or Christian.

Is that bigoted?? I think not. People are always, especially from my experiences in various countries of Europe, so QUICK to tell Americans that they are bigoted against, Blacks, Jews,..you name it. I really do resent that. Especially because as a native born and raised New Yorker, I have the unique honor to have played, schooled, dined, and worshipped with many of these people. I can make certain generalizations about their subcultures, as they can about my ethnic group's culture, without a wince...and they will be on the most part true, and even laughable!!

So much anomosity in the world comes from misunderstanding, and I believe that you have totally misunderstood my intent.

In Christ,
Alice

P.S. I love your name! I named my daughter 'Christiana'...it would have been 'Christian' if she were a boy.

"We all come from our own unique cultural perspectives and experiences. "

This doesn't excuse the use of the term "barbarians" for Turks.

Neither does it excuse the archbishop's quote: "We cannot live together."

--Tim Cuprisin

Dear Tim,

His Eminence has a weakness of being outspoken, and often offending. He should be more careful about the choice of his words, this is true. Purification of historical recent memory is often difficult, especially when overtures towards one's country, both political (the Turks still routinely fly military jets over the Aegean islands to harrass the Greek government, and make the claim that those islands should belong to them), and religious (denying the healthy existence of Orthodox Christianity, despite the ancient seat of Andrew, in their land), have not been respectable. The Greek government on the other hand, trying to take the higher road, supports the entrance of Turkey to the EU.

Again, I agree with you over His Eminence's unfortunate choice of words. Again, I remind all that the history of Greece and of Orthodoxy in relation to Turkey is very complex and ongoing.

God bless.
Alice

His Beatitude, Archbishop Christodoulos is rather outspoken and his comments may not be exactly the type that Americans would understand, but if YOU had seen your bishops dragged through the streets and had watched cigar butts being put out in their faces and seen your churches turned into toilets and your sacred vessels turned into 'chamber pots'...and the holy icons of your parish defiled in the most savage and disgusting manner---maybe...just maybe, you might appreciate his use of the term 'barbarian'??? It certainly might leave you looking for a new way of expressing yourself about such people??? I remember once in seminary being told that if we had an enemy that this was a GOOD thing from one perspective...because at least we had defined the area that needed attention and spiritual struggle. Maybe we should all be a bit more honest about our feelings (at least with our confessors) and then we might begin to at least outline our problem areas...so that we can wage spiritual battle on them?

Just a thought...from an aging priestmonk.

In His Holy Name,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory

Dear Father Archimandrite Gregory,

Thank you for understanding what my last three posts have been trying to convey.

Asking your blessing,
Your sister in Christ, our Lord,
Alice

So spreading bigotry and hate is morally acceptable if your own people have been subjected to it?

--Tim Cuprisin

Come on, Tim. All Alice and Fr. Gregory are saying is you gotta put yourself in His Beautitude's shoes. They're not justifying what he said, simply that it can be [partially] understood why he said such things (while still disagreeing with them).

Logos Teen