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#159502 04/12/04 09:29 PM
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I don't know how likely this is, but I thought I would ask anyway...I'm going to be going to China at the end of the summer, for at least six months, and I'd like to continue attending Divine Liturgy even if I can't understand a single word of it. Is there a Byzantine, or even an Orthodox, presence in that country?

#159503 04/12/04 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by Non_nomen:
I don't know how likely this is, but I thought I would ask anyway...I'm going to be going to China at the end of the summer, for at least six months, and I'd like to continue attending Divine Liturgy even if I can't understand a single word of it. Is there a Byzantine, or even an Orthodox, presence in that country?
You had better wait for Ed Yong for this - he lives in Singapore but hops off to China from time to time

He will answer at some point tomorrow I would think

#159504 04/13/04 02:22 AM
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XB!

Dear Lurker,

China's a very big place, as I'm sure you realise!

A bit of background may be found at http://www.cs.ust.hk/faculty/dimitris/metro/orth_china.html and http://www.chinese.orthodoxy.ru/english/problems.html

They're a bit outdated, as Fr Gregory of Harbin passed away in 2000 and Fr Alexander of Peking passed away last year. So right now the situation is that NONE of the Orthodox parishes or communities have a priest.

So right now, as far as I know, the only real parish (with a building)is in Harbin, Manchuria. On the other hand, over Holy Week I've heard that the Moscow Patriarchate has stationed a priest in Peking, serving weekly Divine Liturgies at the Russian Embassy - I'll find out more about this.

Where will you be going in China?

Yours,

Edward

#159505 04/13/04 06:30 AM
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Dear Non_Nomen,

CHRIST IS RISEN!
TRULY HE IS RISEN!

But it does not look hopeful in China.

"CHINA: When will Beijing's Orthodox have church?"

by Felix Corley ("Forum 18," December 18, 2003)

In the wake of the funeral today (18 December 2003) of the last surviving Orthodox priest in Beijing, it remains unclear when the Orthodox community in the Chinese capital will once again be able to worship freely in its own church. "There are up to 250 Orthodox believers in Beijing," visiting Russian Orthodox priest Fr Dionisy Pozdnyayev told Forum 18 News Service from the city on 18 December, "but the situation for them is so difficult. You cannot even call them an organised community � they have no priest now, no church and nowhere to pray." But he expressed some optimism over the possibility for Chinese Orthodox men to study for the priesthood in Russian theological institutions. "The authorities were positive about this idea."

Asked whether he was optimistic that Beijing's Orthodox will soon be able to have their own church once more after nearly four decades, Fr Pozdnyayev responded: "The situation is very complicated. It is difficult to put any time scale on when they will be able to have their own church."

In the absence of an Orthodox church in Beijing, Fr Pozdnyayev had to conduct the funeral of Fr Aleksandr Du Lifu, who died on 16 December at the age of 80, in the Catholic cathedral, with the permission of the Patriotic Catholic bishop of Beijing, Michael Fu Tieshan.

The Russian Orthodox Church has been trying over the past few years to help the Chinese Autonomous Orthodox Church to revive its activity, which was decimated during the Cultural Revolution. It has requested permission to be allowed to send priests to the surviving parishes, so far in vain. Fr Pozdnyayev told Forum 18 that during his current visit he has met officials of the government's Religious Affairs Bureau to discuss the situation of the Church.

While being prepared to discuss training in Russian theological institutions, officials appeared unwilling to discuss sending priests from Russia. "This issue will be looked at once candidates to study in Russia have been chosen," Fr Pozdnyayev told Forum 18.

The Chinese Orthodox Church, founded on the work of a Russian Orthodox mission, was granted autonomy by the Moscow Patriarchate in 1957. However, the Cultural Revolution of 1966-76 soon brought its activities to a halt. Orthodox churches � like places of worship of all other faiths � were systematically destroyed across China. Only after the Cultural Revolution was over did certain religious communities have the opportunity to reopen places of worship, though under tight government control.

Orthodox in a handful of isolated places were able to reopen surviving churches, although by then many of the Orthodox population, especially those of Russian origin, had left China or had died.

The Moscow Patriarchate notes that Beijing's Orthodox community has been trying since the 1980s to have the opportunity to meet openly for worship again. "Repeated appeals by Fr Aleksandr Du and his Beijing flock to the city authorities with the request to register the community and for permission to conduct public services did not find agreement," it reported on 17 December. "Residents of the Chinese capital have not had the possibility to pray in an Orthodox church since 1966."

While Fr Podnyayev estimates that there are up to 250 local Orthodox believers in Beijing, many of them of Russian descent, he said there is a far greater number of resident foreign citizens who are also Orthodox. Although Fr Pozdnyayev and other visiting Russian clerics have been able to hold services inside the Russian embassy on major church feasts since the late 1990s, these services are not open to Chinese citizens. "Embassy services are for foreign citizens only," Fr Pozdnyayev told Forum 18. An exception appears to have been made for the late Fr Aleksandr, who was able to attend when his health permitted.

Almost all of China's local Orthodox clergy who were ordained before the Communists came to power or in the early communist years have now died off. The parish of the Protecting Veil of the Mother of God in Harbin in China's north-eastern Heilongjiang Province, the home of many Russian exiles until the 1950s, was the last in China to have its own priest, but with the death in September 2000 of Father Gregory Zhu Shipu has had no priest and no regular services.

Several parishes still struggle to survive in Labdarin (Inner Mongolia) and in Urumqi (Ur�mqi), Chuguchak and Kulj (Xinjiang Province of north west China), but with no priests cannot hold regular services. In Xinjiang the city of Urumqi's Orthodox church was reopened in 1985, and Orthodox in Yining have been trying in vain to rebuild their destroyed church since the mid-1980s. Local Orthodox have told Forum 18 in Yining that they have given up hope of ever being able to rebuild the church after repeated obstruction from the authorities.

Fr Pozdnyayev told Forum 18 that the only surviving local clergy � a priest and a deacon - are in the southern city of Shanghai. However, the Moscow Patriarchate reports that the city's St Nicholas' church has been turned into a French restaurant. It complains that other Orthodox churches in China are also being used for other purposes, at least one as a night club.

Disclaimer: WWRN does not endorse or adhere to views or opinions expressed in the articles posted. This is purely an information site, to inform interested parties of religious trends.

Gaudior, regretfully frown

#159506 04/13/04 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by Non_nomen:
Is there a Byzantine, ..., presence in that country?
NN,

There hasn't been a Byzantine Catholic presence in China since the Exarchate for Faithful of the Oriental Rites (Russian) at Harbin was civilly suppressed in 1948 when the clergy were fled, imprisoned, or expelled.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
#159507 04/13/04 03:06 PM
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Dear NN:

The Catholic Church was, and is, equally persecuted and suppressed since the first missionaries arrived in the 13th century, after the Nestorians from Syria failed to evangelize the Chins in the 5th and 6th centuries.

The first Catholic martyr died in 1648. But the tenacity of the faithful persevered and helped preserve a strong presence, although a minority given the total population of China.

A hierarchy was fully established by 1946, but a virulent persecution of the Catholic Church by the Communists when they took over in 1949 decimated the growing population of Catholics.

Unsuccessful elimination of the Catholics led the Communist government to establish in 1957 their "own" Catholic Church, the Chinese Patriotic Association, initially composed of Catholic priests ordained forcibly and illicitly as bishops, together with their parishioners. However, here are unconfirmed reports that some key figures in the hierarchy and faithful
"belonging" to the CPA have reconciled with the Holy See.

There are an estimated 16 million Catholics in China today, 12 million of whom "publicly" show their allegiance to the Pope, despite arrests and incarceration.

It is unfortunate that, as an Orthodox, you may not attend the services in the Catholic Church, which remain available in China.

Of course, if you are a Byzantine Catholic, what prevents you from attending Roman Catholic services?

Amado

P.S.

If you are passing through Hong Kong on your way to mainland China, the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong, under the EP, has Churches in the territory.

PPS You are Roman Catholic!?

#159508 04/14/04 02:52 AM
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Christos voskrese!

Thanks to you all for your replies - it was a hope, anyway. frown I'll be headed to the city of Yantai, on the Yellow Sea - so I'd be a bit away from even the remnants, IIRC.

Amadeus - yes, I am Roman Catholic. Though as things stand, I'm headed East both physically (China) and spiritually (Byzantium).

#159509 04/25/04 10:45 AM
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Update - there's liturgy at the Russian Embassy in Peking about once a month and on Feasts. otherwise, the priest serves weekly in Shenzhen in Canton (Guangdong province).

#159510 04/25/04 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by Amadeus:
...after the Nestorians from Syria failed to evangelize the Chins in the 5th and 6th centuries.
I wouldn't say that the Assyrian missionaries failed in China, just like I wouldn't say the Apostles and early Christian missionaries failed because many of the churches they established no longer exist. The Assyrians had very well established churches and monasteries in China, with numerous clergy and faithful. They had many missions throughout all of Asia, including a Metropolitan in Tibet. However, due to various circumstances, these churches died out by the 1300's or 1400's.

Dave

#159511 04/25/04 09:23 PM
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Yantai - it's been 20 years since I was in China, but I believe that there is a functioning Catholic church in Yantai, though you may have to hunt around for it.
Christ is Risen!
Incognitus


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