www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Temples... what are they now?

On a sad note, it was just reported that St. Michael in Lorain, Ohio is closing. (Already has a buyer.)

http://www.morningjournal.com/site/...amp;newsid=9936020&PAG=461&rfi=9

Hmmmm. Sad in a way yes, but a positive note in another. How is it that churches under the same jurisdiction can be a mile apart? Is that situation healthy, especially if one pastor has to split his attention between the two? A priest friend is in much the same situation, with two parishes less than 10 miles apart. It's more complicated tho' since the rectory is attached to the moribund parish, and there ain't none at the other.

Sharon

We moved two years ago from our old church which is now- get this- a Mosque.

We took the cross off the dome with us and its replaced by a cresent sun. Its ok because the neighborhood was very rough and our priest was mugged on numerous occasions. When moving, the Muslim community was very nice and fraternal. Most are from Somalia.

Sharon,
Go to Chicago and you'll see a cathedral and a huge parish two blocks from each other. Same jurisdiction...

-uc

Same jurisdiction, but different planets? :p

Different galaxies

OK. I was working up at Morgan State University in Baltimore last week and I remembered to bring my camera.

Voila! As the stained glass over the door used to say: St. Michael Ukr. Gk. Cath. Church.



And the cornerstone:


And further:


And also:


The truck outside is from the painters who are doing the former rectory (on the left side of the image).

The downstairs of the church building is renting for (please sit down and grab hold!) $2,400 a month. The upstairs units are $1,600 each (two on the upper level).

The rectory ground floor is $1,800 and the upstairs is $1,400 a month.

I hope our Ukraininan brethren got a TON of money for the property - the neighborhood is now undergoing yuppyfication. Lots of boutiquey stuff springing up in the neighborhood. The Polskies have a large senior citizen apartment building about 3 blocks away, near St. Stanislaus' church. Unfortunately, the Conventual Franciscans and the Archdiocese closed the parish.

Blessings!

Ooops. Made and edit and it repeated the whole thing. Sorry.

Hello Snoopy,

I see a few days have gone by and it seems no one has addressed your question so I'll give it a try.

To answer your basic question about the transfer of the temples, what we are dealing with here is mostly a case of the congregation selling the building and the money is applied elsewhere. A simple Real Estate transaction, the congregation vacates (if many people are left) and use something else.

There was a time in the Catholic church U.S.A when the title of the church building was normally held by the congregation. It is sometimes called trusteeism, it was a financial mechanism to erect parishes in an environment where there was no state support or wealthy donors. People formed a club, like an ethnic club and raised money for a church, then asked the bishop for a priest or sent overseas for one. But the control was in the hands of the trustees who held the mortgage and the title when the debt was paid.

The Catholic parish churches today usually have the title in the name of the bishop, so he controls the keys in reality. Religious orders on the other hand retain the titles to their property like hospitals and monasteries but not parish churches. The congregation would not be able to leave the jurisdiction as a body and take the property, they would need to raise the funds to build or buy another structure if they were so inclined, and that has happened.

There are many cases of parishes under trusteeism withdrawing over some parochial dispute and affiliating with another Church. When the congregation is divided over the decision that means court battles. It is my understanding that this issue was one of the major reasons for the formation of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox church, between the celibacy rule and the transfer of titles to the bishops control a significant number of parishes withdrew from the Catholic church and as a body affiliated with Constantinople.

The Protestant Episcopal church has been losing congregations due to recent headline issues and often they are able to take their property into the new affiliation, although there may be a court test involved.

I believe that most Orthodox parishes still retain the property titles at the parish level, as do the Polish National Catholic Church (Old Catholic) and most Protestant churches. If they choose to affiliate with another jurisdiction it sometimes can happen or if they decide to move the congregation to a new neighborhood they just sell out .

There is a procedure involved in deconsecrating the property, and usually churches in the U.S.A do not have burials around the church so it is not a concern about leaving the beloved behind.

In Christ,
Michael