www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Queen Sophia of Spain: Byzantine Catholic Monarch

With the visit of His Holiness, Pope John Paul II, to Spain this past weekend, my thoughts focused on Queen Sophia of Spain.

Queen Sophia is originally a Greek princess of the now exiled Greek royal family. She was also a member of the Greek Orthodox Church. She married the then Prince Juan Carlos of Spain on May 14, 1962 in Athens. The couple was married in both the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox cathedrals in Athens. An account of their wedding can be read at: www.eurohistory.com/JuanSophia.html [eurohistory.com]

At some point, Queen Sophia became Catholic. Does anyone know what year that occurred? Has she ever talked about why she became Catholic?


The royal family of Spain is considered to be one of the most well respected monarchs of the world. The King and Queen live modestly for being royals and are practicing Catholics. Although Queen Sophia attends Roman Catholic liturgical services, she most certainly can be regarded as being Byzantine Catholic since she was originally Greek Orthodox.

Does anyone have any further information on her conversion to Catholicism? Has she ever attended any Byzantine Catholic services either in Spain or in Greece?

As far as I know, there are no Byzantine Catholic chapels in Spain and if she attended a Byzantine Catholic Church in Greece, the riot would still be going on.

The Queen has the 'Privilege de Blanc' (one of four people in the world), therefore she must be formally a Catholic.

Axios

I watched some of the celebrations. Beforehand, I had forgotten about the formerly-Orthodox queen, but as soon as I saw her, my memory became clearer. I must admit, inwardly I was beeming at such a high-profile Orthodox figure embracing the Catholic Faith. (ooohh, I'm gonna get hell for this!)

Oh, BTW, Griego, there was a thread on this very topic awhile back (though I don't think it began as such...thus the problem with changing topics in one thread); I believe around Sep-Oct of last year. You could try and find it in the long-lost back pages.

Logos Teen

Well, she may formally have to be a Catholic but she may very well keep her Orthodox Faith in her heart

It could be Brian. And we may well have had Greek and Russian royals who were Lutherans in their hearts!

Axios

Dear Griego Catolico,

These royals are so intriguing. We hear almost nothing about them in the U.S.
I have a photo of their crowning, but it is not of good enough quality to scan in.

As you said about their modesty they must not attract the media's twisted attention.

As Logos Teen said there was a thread on the forum about them some time back, As I recall there was not alot of detail about the Spanish royal couple.

Our friend from Spain, Francisco, could be of help. I hope he still checks in with the forum.

I will stay tuned.

Christ's peace,

Paul

Actually, Queen Sophia was required to become Catholic in order to marry Prince Juan Carlos. It was the same with Prince Philip in the UK, when Archbishop Temple (I think) insisted on his conversion to the Anglican faith. The same can be applied with Dagmar and Alex of Denmark upon their marriages into the Russian Royal Family (or lest we forget that grand-dame Catherine the Great). Logos may be happy that such a high ranking Orthodox person converted [ ] but equally, we can can praise Tsar "Foxy" Ferdinard of Bulgaria for baptising Prince Boris into the correct faith.........even though the Pope was spluttering in anger!




Anton

ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ ΑΝΕΣΤΗ
ΑΛΗΘΩΣ ΑΝΕΣΤΗ


1. Princess Sophia of Greece became member of the Catholic Church after his arrival to Spain after her weding in Athens with prince Juan Carlos of Spain in 1962.
2. Her "convertion" to Catholicim took place in a privaze ceremony at the chapel of their residence of the Palacio de la Zarzuela. The ceremony was presided by the Archbishop of the Armed Forces if I am not wrong.
3. She is member of the (Latin) Church of Spain and she does not belong to any Eastern Catholic Chuch.
4. There is no reference to the 'Privilege de Blanc' in the democratic Spanish Constitution of 1978
5. The spiritual and catechetical praparation for the royal wedding was assumed by the for 30 years chaplain of the Spanish embassy in Athens, father Irineos, a Greek byzantine rite priest and hero of the resistence during the II European War who found refugee for a lot of of Hebrew families during German ocupation.

Dear Friends,

Royalty have intermarried for centuries and have changed Churches for that long too.

St Yaroslav the Wise of Kyiv's daughters were all married to Western European Royalty - one daughter was Queen of France, married, I believe, to King Henri I.

One of the patrons of Bavaria is St Edigna who happens to be the great granddaughter of St Volodymyr of Kyiv.

Prince Philip himself embraced Anglicanism when he married you-know-who .

Today he has returned to Orthodoxy and Prince Michael of Kent is Orthodox too.

But Prince Philip's royal family was not "Greek" even though the Hohenzollerns were invited to assume the Throne of Greece for a while.

He was of Germanic background, as was St Alexandra and St Elizabeth Romanov, both former Lutherans.

Royalty has never made a tremendous fuss over these issues.

When a Protestant future King of France was offered the throne on condition he become a Catholic, he agreed saying that "Paris is worth a Mass."

Queen Sophia became a formal Roman Catholic, just as the daughters of St Yaroslav the Wise did when they married into Western European Royalty.

Alex

Dear AntonI:

Poor prince Boris was terrified beyond words at his Orthodox confirmation.

He cried throughout the service and at the end ran home to his mother who was in utter despair at the situation.

Boris had been originally Baptized in the Roman Catholic faith of his Parents.

His mother who was a very pious Italian Princess was extremely aggrieved that his father was forcing this thing upon the child.

She sincerely believed that he was imperiling her son's soul.

She had a difficult marriage to Ferdinand and died heartbroken at an early age.

I believe that if Ferdinand had made clear his intentions beforehand she would never have married him.

Ferdinand tried to get Pope Leo XIII to agree to the Orthodox confirmation, but the Pope could not in any conscience (in his words) "allow his child to fall into schism".

Ferdinand left the Pope's presence in an angry rage, swearing obscenities in a laud voice as he left the Vatican.

He was excommunicated by the Church for forcing the confirmation.

Ferdinand in exile was later reconciled to the Church after Boris, who was now an adult, was seen to accept the Orthodox faith of his own accord.

All in all hardly a praiseworthy occurrence.


defreitas

Dear Jose,

Quite right.

For Bulgaria and other kingdoms at the time, the difference between Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy was one of "best political advantage" rather than doctrinal or liturgical.

Greek Catholic apologists have tended to explain the good relationship between Catholic and Orthodox royalty as an indication showing that unity wasn't really destroyed etc.

In fact, we see that even in the Reformation, people tended to follow their sovereigns as a principle of church adherence - rather than the principle of "which is the true Church."

Alex

Dear Alex,

I am still uncertain about the comment you made about Prince Philip and Prince Michael. As far as I know, there had been no report in the press [and such a major event would have been covered...I am sure Jenny Bond would have made sure she d*amn well know! ]. Philip is still an Anglican; he partakes of its Communion. He may show great interest in Orthodoxy and Mount Athos, but this does not mean that he has seen the light and (!) returned to the fold. I did find a website in the UK ran by a ROCOR priest in Felixstowe and frankly, that wasn't particularly nice, seeing the vehement criticisms pouring out of him, especially towards the venerable +Anthony.

Anton

Do you mean Met. Antonii?

Fr Andrew Pillips has written much that is sentimental slush and shouldn't be taken too seriously. His appraisal of Patriarch nikon, of sorry-memory, was an absolute joke.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

Yes Father...'tis him.

I hope that you did not think I was implying anything bad about ROCOR! That's one good thing about doing hisotry; it makes one vey even-headed when it comes to conflicting ideas. I still don't like Thomas Becket but I do see some of his points....

Xhristos Voshreshi

Anton

Voistinnu voskrese!

I'm all for judging ideas and theories on their merits - and those merits supercede jurisdiction. Let's call a brick a brick, whether it a patriarchal, ROCOR, Nikonian or Old Believer brick - and all walls sometimes need repointing!

Do you know how Patriarch Alexei's proposals for an autonomous, united Russian Orthodox Metropolia of Westen Europe have been greeted by the faithful of Sourozh and the Patriarchate in general?

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

As far as I can gather, it has been well received. Unfortunately, the Russian Archdiocese had been undergoing a crisis, particularly over who will succeed +Anthony, and some groups are developing...the influx of Russians immigrants coming into conflict with the converts and the British Russians and there are rumours going of parishes going to that of Thyteira under +Gregorius. I don't know really....

Interestingly, Patriarch Alexis has extended the letter to all the Russians churches (such as +Mark of Germany). Kudos to him (though some do suspect alterior motives - how exactly will the Russians be looked after in E. Europe, particularly in the Orthodox countries?). In America, the OCL (Orthodox Christian Laity) have taken this as proof that Alexis is wonderful and the EP is rotten to the core...frankly, the whole business there is a mess.

I think that jurisdictional problems are the crisis that we face. Unlike Catholics or Anglicans, we don't have people disagreeing with the doctrines of the Church. This is not an attack; merely a reflection. One needs to look at the UK Catholics and the "liberally" inclined "Tablet" magazine. In the Anglican Church...well the less said the better...+Williams has his work cut out esp. with the crisis in Canada and Australia.

Anton

griego catolico,

I don't like to link to low-quality photographs, but you might find these pics of the Orthodox and Catholic weddings of King Juan Carlos and Queen Sophia of some value:

http://www.tboyle.net/Royalty/Juan_Carlos_wedding.html

Paul

Dear Anton - I think that there may well be 'fallout' and that Thyateira will be waiting with a net. +Gregorios has long considered himself - in my humble opinion - the rightful first hierarch of all of the Orthodox in Britain, harking back to the mentality of the Ottoman empire. I think that he sees himself as the rightful spiritual head of Britain's Orthodox and also as an ethnarch of the Greek and Cypriot peoples. I hope the Russian Orthodox resist the temptation to flee, as I think that the Patriarchate of Constantinople is spirittually and morally bankrupt.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

Dear Anton,

Prince Michael is Orthodox - I got it directly from him at a banquet we had for The Queen's Gold Jubilee here.

Prince Philip has also returned to Orthodoxy, I've seen a number of references to it - and then there is the direct way as well . . .

Perhaps the popular press in Britain doesn't consider this "newsy."

But if there were any truth to the rumour that Prince Charles has become an Orthodox Catechumen, well, then . . .

Alex

I might concede on the Michael front, but the historian in me still wants proof about Philip! As for Charles becoming Orthodox ('twould be nice); heck no. He is deeply religious, granted, and he may disapprove of some wings of the Anglican Church, but he is Anglican. The Bill of Rights, for example, demands that the ruler be of the Anglican faith, just as those of Norway and Sweden demand that their rulers be of Lutheran Church (hence Queen Christina's abdication and enjoyment of the high life in Rome!). And besides, both father and son cross the wrong way......

Anton

I must admit to having heard from within the royal househod about Prince Philip, but can say no more.

Fr Mark.

Dear Anton,

At the funeral of Diana, Princess of Wales, I saw Prince Charles cross the Orthodox way.

Of course, the Prince could not become formally Orthodox now.

But rules are meant to be changed.

King Edward V declined to be crowned because the coronation oath of his time was offensive to Catholics.

When Parliament refused to change it, he refused to accept the crown until it did . . .

In England today, what does it mean to be a "solid Anglican" anyway?

To be an Anglican with a personal body-weight of over 200 pounds?

Alex

Alex, Alex.....shame on you! I wish there were more people like + Chartres of London in the Anglican Church...now there is a wonderful prelate with a room full of icons (as one bishop crassly commented during the search for the new ABC). A tid bit about the Anglican crisis; well the diocese of Jensen (sorry - Sydney) is going towards an interesting path - on one side it condemns homosexual unions but on the others fully supports lay involvement during the Communion/Mass....hmmm


Anton

P.S. But Vather, ve have ways of making you talk.....(does a Boris and Natasha Churckle)...

Dear Anton,

I was speaking in generalities . . .

I myself belong to two Anglican devotional societies.

As for Father Mark, you can forget about it.

Old Believers are famous for their composure under all sorts of torture .

And who says you have to know everything?

Alex

I'd always understood to the rules of the reigning monarch of Great Britain to be that he/she could be of any religious organization (Anglican, Muslim, Jewish, Eastern Orthodox), but could NOT be Catholic. Can't remember the name of the document that says this, but AFAIK it's still in effect. Corrections are appreciated (not that y'all wouldn't give them even if they weren't!) .

Logos Teen

You are correct Teen, the English monarch, while serving as temporal head of the Church of England may be of any religious persuasion, other then Roman Catholic, as well as their spouse. Any member of the royal family (even the most peripheral relations) who marries a Roman Catholic must renounce any succesion rights. Ernst of Hanover, who had about as much chance of inherting the throne of the UK as I do had to renounce his claims when he married Princess Caroline of Monaco because she is Catholic.
I read a bio of the Queen a few years ago, which alluded to the Duke of Edinburg returing to the Orthodox faith. Prince Charles as Orhtodox? Hmm...but he is raising his sons C of E.

David

Fine...I made a mistake.....we all make mistakes....and frankly, I am a medievalist anyway...can't be doing with this mumbo-jumbo "modern history"..................


Anton

Dear David,

But some of the best Orthodox Christians I know where former Anglicans!

One got ordained an Orthodox priest on Sunday last!

As you know, Prince Philip's mother was an Orthodox nun until her death and she had her own private Orthodox chapel in Buckingham Palace.

The fact is that the Romanov Martyr-Saints are all blood relations of Her Majesty The Queen.

Anglicans have always had excellent relations with Orthodoxy, beginning with St Theodore of Canterbury, King Charles the Martyr's relationship with the Patriarchs of Constantinople etc.

I had a private conversation with Prince Michael of Kent about these matters which, alas, must remain private.

He bears such a strong resemblance to Tsar St Nicholas Romanov!

Alex

The more I read Alex's posts, the more mysterious he gets. Tell me, are you by any chance the bloke who parachutes into the hotel room with a box of chocolates?

Dear Anton,

Do you prefer milk or dark chocolate?

Alex

Lindt...might be persuaded by Godiva's....don't do Cadbury (faaaaarrrrr too common, y'know)...

Anton

Dear Anton,

O.K., O.K., I'll go do something productive.

Alex

Put it in the dust-bin!

Yes, do so...and wash you mouth out with soap and water!

:p

Bidding you all a good night; off to watch ER before going early to bed for my exam tomorrow on "The Reign of Henry II: King of England and Lord of the Angevin Empire". Uhhhh.....

Dear Friends,

My apologies.

But it's nice to know that you knew what I was talking about!

Alex

A few corrections:

That would be because it has nothing to do with Spain. She is the only Spaniard who has this, and only four persons world wide.

On the issue of the religion of the British Royal Family, it is not true the Monarch may be of any religion. The Monarch must be "a faithful Protestant". The other members of the Royal Family must not be Roman Catholics but may be of any other religion.

HRH Philip may well be Orthodox, but he takes Communion and attend CofE services. It could be like Tony Blair, who is CofE but attends and takes Communion at Catholic services.

Axios

What is 'Privilege de Blanc?'

Paul

The 'Privilege de Blanc' is the honor given to Catholic Queens (no jokes, please!) to wear white in the presence of the Pope. (Adult women are otherwise expected to wear black). Four women have this honor, the Queen of Spain, the Queen of the Belgians, the Queen Mother of the Belgians, and the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg.

It is reported that it was offered to Princess Grace of Monaco. She declined the honor, with conflicting reports that she did so of humility, or because it was offered personally to her rather than perpetually to the Princess consort of Monaco.

The Pope also offers Catholic Queens the Golden Rose. Evita Peron tried to have it awarded to her, but the Pope did not do so.

Axios

Isn't the 'Privilege de Blanc' the right for female monarchs and rulers to wear white in the Pope's presence? I read in a book of ecclesiastical etiquette that only Catholic queens and princesses can wear white when visiting the Holy Father. All other women must wear black.

Of course you might recall how a few years ago the president of Ireland shocked the papal household by wearing a kelly green suit! :rolleyes:

PAX

Dear Friends:

Catholic Queens or ruling female Sovereigns have the right to wear white to papal ceremonies, in the Pope's presence, or as a formal mourning colour.

It is just an old Papal courtesy which is extended only to Catholic Royalty.

When the Queen, or any other female for that matter, goes to the Vatican she is technically obliged to wear Papal court dress (long black dress, and veil).

Catholic Queens wear white as their specific mark of distinction.

I have never heard of the custom having any significance than the aforementioned.


The following Female Sovereigns regularly wear the "Pivilege du Blanc"

Queen Sophia of Spain
Queen Fabiola of Belgium
Queen Paula of Belgium
Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte of Luxembourg
Grand Duchess Maria Theresa of Luxembourg

The late Princess Grace of Monaco being only a Serene Highness and not a Royal Highness did not have the automatic right to the distinction (which was a pity).


defreitas

Good on ya, Mary Robinson!!!!!!!

Kelly Green Suit???? Oh my.....heresy, I say, heresy.

Well, you learn something new everyday...I wonder whether Margarita ("Queen") wife of Prime-Minister Saxe-Coburg-Gotha ("King") should have one. She is Catholic, but then her husband is not, and she is not a Sovereign Consort either....

One thing as well; why is it common for the Pope to be in white but no other Latin ecclesiastic? In the East, +Alexiis wears white, as well as +Teocrist and +Maxim, yet +Bartholomew wears black....and why is +Alexiis (hmm forget word....hat) different in look as compared to his brother prelates?

Mmm, I am sure that there is a heresy brewing somewhere...............................

Anton

The Pope did not always where what he wears today.

This started in sometime ago in the past what a dominican was elected as Pope, he continued to wear his habit. That is why what the Holy Father wears now resembles the dominicans.


David

Anton,

Some Roman Catholic priests in India and Africa wear white cassocks.

In the U.S. Ive seen the RC Brothers of Our Lady of Guadalupe wear a white habit. Quite stunning!!

God bless you,

Paul

The white klobuk Patriarch Alexis wears follows the older style of Russian monastic headgear, now associated with monks of the Great Schema. The legend of the white cowl reminds us that the white klobuk was first worn by the Archbishop of Novgorod. If you look at old Russian icons you will see many hierarchs, and indeed monks, wearing the rounded 'shlem' and the veil with the lappets falling down at the front. Of course, in the Russian Orthodox Church (MP) metropolitans wear white veils. Within the Old Rite (Belayakrinitsy) the first hierarchs of the Russian and Romanian Churches wear the 'white cowl' with the embroidered cherubim.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

I am under the impression that there is at least one or two Byzantine Catholic chapels in Spain. I just did an internet search and found a reference to a "Queen of Angels Byzantine Chapel" in Malaga.

The word Byzantine here could be in use as meaning Byzantine in the usage of Byzantine Rite, instead of as part of the porper name of a church, as in the Byzantine Catholic Church.

David

"The following Female Sovereigns regularly wear the "Pivilege du Blanc"

Queen Sophia of Spain
Queen Fabiola of Belgium
Queen Paula of Belgium
Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte of Luxembourg
Grand Duchess Maria Theresa of Luxembourg

The late Princess Grace of Monaco being only a Serene Highness and not a Royal Highness did not have the automatic right to the distinction (which was a pity)."

Does the Princess Consort of Lichtenstien posses this right?

Dear David:

As far as I know the Princess of Liechtenstein does not have "Privilege du Blanc".

I have seen pictures of her late Highness Princess Gina wearing black at papal ceremonies.

I have never seen pictures of the current Princess at the Vatican.

The reason why the Princesses of Monaco and Liechtenstein do not have this right has something to do with how their states are defined diplomatically.

Monaco exists under treaty obligations which unite it to France under certain situations.

I understand that if the Royal family in Monaco becomes extinct then the country would revert to France.

Liechtenstein on the other hand has certain arrangements with Switzerland.

This is of course a simplistic understanding of the situation and I am, thankfully, not a diplomat.


defreitas

The Norbertines (Premonstratensians)wear white cassocks (and, in some circles, birettas). They predate the Dominicans, ya know.

The Norbertines of St Michael's Abbey in Orange County, California, have quite frinedly relations with Holy Resurrection Monastery, in Cal.,I understand. In fact, I think you can see one of the Norbertines in one of the photos that HR has on its web site--must have been visiting.

Fr Hugh Barbour, O. Praem., prior of St Michael's, has given a very interesting talk (which is available on tape) on St John Moschos' "Spiritual Meadow". This was part of his three-talk contribution to a seminar entitled "Lessons from Late Antiquity: How to Live Well in a Dying Age", by the Rockford Institute last Summer. Fr Hugh's other talks were on St Augustine and on St Gregory of Tours' "Life of the Fathers." I highly recommend them.

Woody