www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Carter 'Willing' to Forego Pope's Funeral

Well , whats new from the left.....


Tuesday, April 5, 2005 4:47 p.m. EDT
Carter 'Willing' to Forego Pope's Funeral
Former Presidents Bush and Clinton will accompany President Bush to the funeral of Pope John Paul II, the White House said Tuesday. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will also be part of the small official U.S. delegation, but former Presidents Carter and Ford will not.

President Bush and his wife, Laura, will lead the group representing the United States at the funeral on Friday, said White House press secretary Scott McClellan.


Story Continues Below



McClellan said the White House "reached out" to Carter, but he would not explain why Carter was not going along.

A spokesman at The Carter Center in Atlanta, Jon Moore, said Carter � relishing the memories of two visits as president with the pontiff � had told the White House he wanted to go to the funeral. Upon learning that the Vatican was limiting the U.S. delegation to five people and that "there were also others who were eager to attend," Carter was "quite willing" to withdraw his request, Moore said.

"He and his wife Rosalynn are very pleased with the official delegation," Moore said of Carter.

Former President Ford, who lives in California, is 91 and no longer travels extensively.

Bush talked about the pope at both his public appearances Tuesday, during a Social Security speech in Parkersburg, W.Va., and later after a Cabinet meeting at the White House.

"What a great man," Bush said. "It will be my honor to represent our country at a ceremony marking a remarkable life � a person who stood for freedom and human dignity."

Clinton spokesman Jim Kennedy said the former president's doctors had given him clearance to fly to Rome. Clinton had surgery a month ago in New York to deal with a rare complication from a heart bypass operation six months earlier. His doctors originally told him he would need four to six weeks at home, but he traveled by train to Washington last week to collect an award for his work on AIDS.

Bush is leaving Washington for Rome on Wednesday, and was to spend Thursday meeting with Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi and Italian President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi. The president planned to leave Italy immediately after the funeral to spend the weekend at his ranch in Texas.

Bush will be the first sitting president to attend a pope's funeral. The pontiff died on Saturday, ending more than a quarter-century as leader of the Catholic Church.

Bush met with the pope three times during his presidency. The pontiff was quick to tell Bush about his deep disagreement with the war in Iraq, the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. troops and Bush's support for the death penalty. During their final meeting last June, Bush presented the pope with the Medal of Freedom and the pope responded by reading a statement that said he had "grave concern" about events in Iraq.


� 2005 Associated Press.

I applaud the humility with which the former President responds to the gratuitious insult from the Bush administration.

Hardly gratuitous. How do you know that it wasn't Clinton who convinced the President to not take Carter. Carter didn't bother to go the funerals of Paul VI or JPI. In any event there are more people in Rome now than the city can comfortably handle.

Besides, what's the point in taking an old war horse who has not missed an opportunity to condemn just about everything Mr. Bush has proposed.

The move is hardly gratuitous. I'm a little surprised at the bigness of heart Mr. Bush is showing towards Mr. Clinton. Now, that's gratuitous and even prodigal.

Dan L

"Gratuitious" implies that there's no good reason for excluding Mr. Carter. I can think of several good reasons, right off the top of my head, which I won't mention since I'm trying not to be snotty today. (Failing, but trying! )

Also, if Mr. Carter wants to go, why doesn't he just go on his own? I don't see anyone saying he's *forbidden* to go, only that he's not *invited* to go as part of the official U.S. delegation.

This story seems to be nothing more than the typical press ploy to make President Bush look bad. It seems to me that if the United States was asked to limit the presidential entourage to five individuals former President Carter should not have expected to be asked. The president and his wife make two. The secretary of state is a logical choice since the pope is the head of a sovereign nation. That leaves two open slots. I see no need to invite former presidents but, if the president chose to, inviting the presidents in reverse order seems logical (Clinton and Bush, and if either turned it down, Carter and Ford).

Let�s not forget here that while President Carter was in office two popes died and he did chose not to send any high-ranking delegation to either funeral (he sent his mother to represent him at Pope Paul VI�s funeral).

I think that it is tacky (not humble) for former President Carter to make an announcement that he was willing to forgo a trip to something he could not reasonable be expected to be the at the top of the invitation list. I can certainly understand his desire to go, and he certainly could go as a private citizen or maybe even as part of the congressional or with one of the other delegations that are going. But putting himself in the position of demanding a top position only to claim being snubbed when he is not then invited is his own fault.

The President did not invite his own mother so that former President Clinton could go. In his place I would have invited my mother over the former president. Barbara Bush seems to be a typical mother, so I am sure that the president has received some heat for not inviting her. It seems to me that he has already gone the extra mile.

There was no insult from President Bush to former President Carter. President Carter was the one that made public his displeasure at not being invited. It seems to me that he did so only to cause embarrassment to the president. That is not humility.

As a former President, retaining the title President, he should have been invited to be in the official US delegation - limited to five because of the logstical constraints. (I doubt that he can just can "just go on is own". Certainly he should be invited before the current S. of State - with the current President in attendance).

Because it's not about Bush, it's about the US delegation to the funeral of JPII. Not a time to take a political swipe. (Ditto with Clinton) I think that you hit the nail the head with the rationale, Dan - and it is "no good reason", hence gratuitous.

Carter was probably most outspoken against Bush regarding Iraq - just like JPII.

And how could this be resolved successfully, djs?

The Vatican set the limit of each delegation to 5.

The current delegation includes three former presidents who worked with Pope John Paul II at least for a full four year term. (As you know, Carter was coming to the close of his tenure when JP2 was elected.)

It makes sense that the First Lady would accompany her husband to this important state event.

Condi is the Secretary of State and the Vatican is a sovereign state.

That makes 5.

I don't see any other way that it could have been resolved. Do you?

Gordo

As I already posted, SoS are appropriate to head the delegation when the President is not attending. With Bush there, it would have been better to include Carter rather than Rice.

That's certainly a valid opinion for you to hold. But nothing you have said or what has been reported in the press justifies your claim of a "gratuitious insult" towards President Carter.

We were posting at the same time, so I did not have a chance to read your earlier point.

Since I am not as in the loop on the protocols of DC, doesn't the SoS periodically accompany the president to various state events, even ones outside of the country? Would this be that unusual for her to attend, given Carter's limited work with the Pope?

Gordo

The press understood the snub. That is why this is a story. And this is not the first occasion of this type of snub. As I mentioned, and Dan independently suggested, the undercurrent is that these snubs are political, and therefore gratuitious.

I don't agree that it's either gratuitous or a snub. The current President of the U.S. has the right to decide who he (or she) wants in the official U.S. delegation, for this or any other event. There's no law (that I'm aware of) which says that all former U.S. presidents must always accompany the current President if one of them does.

It is far more likely that the press purposely created a snub where there was none. President Bush has gone out of his way to be nice to the former presidents and include them according to tradition. He cannot be expected to demand that the Vatican change its limit on the number of people who are allowed to come. If President Carter had gone to the funerals of Pope Paul VI or Pope John Paul I or sent former presidents to represent him then he might, just might, have something to complain about.

No one would have known about this situation unless former President Carter had chosen to make it public. If he had felt snubbed it seems that the better course of action would be to privately contact the White House. Making this public only makes it seem that all he wanted was a few minutes of the spotlight and to possibly make the president look bad. He succeeded only in the first.

�Tonight at six-thirty ABC News will reveal a secret deal between the Bush Administration and the Vatican to limit the number of individuals invited to Pope John Paul�s funeral to five from each attending country�s presidential entourage so that Bush might purposely snub former President Carter. Secretary of State Condi Rice is said to have personally negotiated the deal behind closed doors during the Holy Father�s final hours. The White House, understandably, is not willing to admit to such evil tactics to embarrass the former president.�

Yes the President has the right to act as he sees fit on this matter. That right is not relvant to whether his action is or is not a snub.

And this is not at all about where the limit to five in the delegation arose. Puh-lease.

If they were blind and did not realize who was and who was not present. It was similarly noted that Carter was not invited by Bush to visit, with the other travel-healthy former Presidents, the tsunami area. I suppose if Carter had a record of humnaitarian activites ...

djs,

What's the point. What possible difference could it make that Mr. Carter go along on this trip? I voted for Mr. Carter but he really hasn't any relationship to JPII. His presence is extraneous to the visit, and is Mr. Ford's. This is a non-issue not worthy of anyone's time. Henceforth I will ignore this thread.

Dan L